Info The Elemental Revamp: Part 1 - Endgame Overhaul - Updated Changelog Beta 1.1.1

just want to point out that the change that unironically pissed me off the most was morph being fucked again. For wearing all 8 pieces of morph you get 2 mr and (i think) 1 ms. And the sp got reduced, which is an extra fuck you to people who even thought about using morph. Morph isn't just not viable, it's fucking unusable. Why do you even make a set with 8 pieces when you aren't rewarded even 1 more mana regen compared to wearing like (i think) 5 to 6 pieces. Current morph isn't even good, it sucks really, but new morph is fucking worthless and now we can really really say that morph isn't just dead but in a burning volcano to burn in hell. What the fuck

edit: its 2 ms not 1. not much better

 

archetype, all planned bro

 

You're not the only one that thinks Suppression is a little weak.

@Parzizal I'm in agreement on Inferno, and that Divzer's ms/ls is kind of useless now. I disagree on Ignis, the reqs aren't that hard to reach and you can still be very powerful: https://wynndata.tk/s/0s5vug only limits are Cancer and Detective's Ring sp, so you can of course swap Fireball to something with a bit of sp to make it work. I haven't tried Weathered yet.

 

i have no idea what the fuck he means by "wow that sounds familiar huh"
what have the ims, or ANY TEAM for that matter, worked on before that they didnt want to go to waste

 

His point was that it’s a bad update and the only reason they’re defending and pushing it so hard is that they don’t want it to go to waste, not because it’s good for the game. He’s not saying it’s inherently bad to not want your work wasted, just that in this context it is.

 

Hit the nail on the head
Look at how many people are angry
It doesn't matter the work if the item team has any respect for the game they won't go through with this update and if they do go through I hope it kills most of the player base so they revert and learn that they actually should listen to us.

 

To be fair, it's not even a nerf to concentration, as much as its a late-game nerf?
Because early on, what's -10% of 40? 36, with the raw spell I'm actually gaining damage.
But later on obviously 7 raw spells is literally nothing and 10% is kinda a big deal.

I like that form of level locking.

 

but when did they do this before youre dodging the question

(this = "because they just don't want to see their work go to waste despite it being bad for the game overall")

 

1. actually, the master hive armor gives net 0 sp (like old hive armor wow) on a rainbow build and no negative damages, making it actually quite viable for rainbow, assuming you can get the sp from somewhere else though. however, i can see the issue on that (at least in terms of rainbow builds) since rainbow sp items were nerfed.

2. from what i'm getting from 2, you're saying that you can't get mana without intelligence, which if that's the case, i agree. makes me sad (rip old brainwash)

3. not actually much of a problem, but yeah i see how it limits creativity

4. uh the change in this update wasn't to make uniques as strong as legendaries, it was to give them a purpose. legendaries still often will give your build its power (e.g. spell damage, mana, attack speed, melee damage, tankiness, etc etc), and what uniques do is give skill points (and sometimes mana i guess). they mostly have different purposes

5. melee isn't really bad, say you're an assassin, you have to get relatively close to them in order to effectively deal damage anyway. archer obviously can be far away, mage can still stay ten blocks away, and warrior is like assassin. it really wasn't intended for you to slowly smoke or warscream your enemies to death

with nona and dondasch, you could try some -tier raw melee items in conjunction with it
https://wynndata.tk/s/j8twa4 idk

archetypes including defense (or i guess water + defense) both have a lot of mana. although i guess that comes from the water, doesn't it. oof

with the whole fun is more important than balance, yeah i agree mostly.

hmm i think spring actually got BUFFED, as its damage as massively increased, and you can now make stuff like this https://wynndata.tk/s/ze3nb2

from what i know, the new mythics will be put on wynndata when they're discovered in game

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hey so i see that a lot of your complaints are that they drastically changed mythics so much that they lost their identity and some of the ids arent thematically appropriate (which i can see, and probably agree with), so i guess i'll try to say "oh but at least they're pretty good now"

divzer was already indirectly buffed by the defense fix, meaning that you could legit reach ignis levels of tankiness on a bow that does 1.5x the damage

spring, like i said, above, as buffed. the -hpr is extremely easy to counter. just gaea hewn boots counters it, and then from there it's easy to stack mr (for once) can hit 12/4+ and still have 13k+ bombs

inferno has pretty decent melee damage while being insanely tanky. idk about spell, haven't tried it, but you can see the melee build in one of my above posts. the ele def was bad, but 100+ def and 90 agi more than makes up for it

freedom is still decent, hitting ~2.5k more bombs than old hive bow rainbow isn't exactly BAD https://wynndata.tk/s/qvbw4t EDIT: oops wrong fusion necklace, can't hit 129 int, so it'd need the req of one of the sp items to be lowered ree (pls fusion back to 20 for thematic purposes)

i agree that inferno isn't really an omega creative dagger, but just remember it hits cool melee damage naturally, which is something that you can abuse

yeah not a big fan of how nirvana was 100% switched around. if i remember correctly, reasoning was to prevent infinite stunlocks or something. you can at least counter the mana with EFA mana.... again...

 

I believe that tier stack is op as ever with alka builds reaching 40k dps and rainbow is a little on the weak side. I haven’t had time to mess with other things but tierstack definitely needs a nerf.

 

Note that 50 reqs means in practice, Hive armor is a net -30 sp in most cases.

 

Was gonna post this on the new poll thread that got published, but since I have very specific feedback about certain archetypes, I'll post it here.

I honestly like the update, and can see how it promotes build diversity and variation in builds. Since mana is now spread out across various "archetypes", it makes intelligence have far less of a significance in spell builds.

However, I do believe that some archetypes definitely need work, along with certain endgame mythics. For instance, one thing I was told was that glass cannons were going to see a massive buff in this update, which I'm not necessarily seeing thanks to the Divzer and Grandmother nerfs. On top of this, Monster is a melee wand, but it's extremely difficult to build melee (almost pointlessly so). The closest I've ever gotten to making a Monster build as usable as my current one with the new update changes involves the Valiance archetype, and even so, it's far weaker than my current build with simple tierstacking.

I'm finding that attack speed bonus is too limited to the Rogue archetype, and that there should be more tierstack options within the Valiance and Vampiric archetypes. Many fire weapons are still heavily oriented towards melee playstyles, and yet the archetypes based around the fire-element do not do a good job supporting of their melee playstyles.

Anyways, I think the update is great. On the topic of having all my builds destroyed and having to re-do them, I don't mind. Then again, I have a large sum of LE to chip away at so I'm not as desperate as some other players might be.

I understand why players would hate this update due to having to revamp their builds with the little LE they might have remaining, but I don't understand why some people think that the IMs are insular, stuck-up pricks that just want to ruin players' build. This is the most community involvement we've ever had in any planned update. I've never, in all my time on this server, seen any part of the CT try and accept community feedback about upcoming changes until now. They're giving the community an opportunity to help change an update to make it better for everyone, and rather than spreading lies about the IMs intentions, we should be trying to help them shape this update into something we might enjoy.

 

etw is extremely good right now so try that out if you havent
@Bart (MC) has some good shit
the rest i agree with

monster got fucked over by both the changes to it and the meta so thats sad

 

never post detailed criticism of an update (or anything for that matter) on an unofficial thread when an official one exists. its less likely to be noticed there than here, where ims are watching and trying to balance items via community input.

 

So I am not seeing the Amulet of rejuvenation in the changelog. It seems to me like it'll be really nasty to fight against with the new changes to HP regen and defense. So lemme just post a build here to show that keeping it as is will probably not be a good idea.
https://wynndata.tk/s/fb4x7p
+- 700HP / second
>22K HP
>100% thorns and reflection
>540 ele defense in each element, >900 water defense
>50% damage negated, >50% dodged

and 1382 DPS with the curse active as a bonus.
And this is made in like 10 minutes without much thought being put into it.

Than again, this really needs thorns/reflection to be worthwhile so it probably isn't as bad as I think. But it'd be awful to fight against in PVP.


This could easily be avoided by giving it -500% thorns and reflection


edit: quite some people disagree with what I said and they're probably right.

 

Does this look OP to you though? It's still very low damage, and only works with Specialist.

 

Question is if the -raw melee won't negate the melee damage. Maybe just wynndata doesn't handle it like it does with -raw spell.

 

Atlas be like: "So hey, we wanted to come up with this cool concept, a simple bracelet that will shit on your melee damage but will make your build ideal for hybrid, and check, we even adjusted the -tier for a guaranteed super slow...
...One Beta Changelog later...
Hey, we fcked Atlas and made it -1 tier. Contradicts it's original purpose but it's balance. Have a nice day!"

 

Sooo constructive feedback on particular items (I could go all day at this), here we goo.


Most changes to mythics do a good job at making them more interesting without sacrificing much. With changes like fatal and freedom, i think the end result is good but more consideration could be made into giving the already existing ids more prominence? For example. on fatal if the mana was cut to -2 and 2 on regen respectively and the damage ids were increased, but the base damage could be cut? This would keep already existing fatals closer to what they are in value and would feel less drastic. The extra tier on weathered at the cost of damage is interesting - making melee stronger but spell weaker. It somewhat damages spell weathered but I think the extra melee damage but the extra melee damage makes up for it in most cases.

In general mythics having higher sp skill costs in general makes them much harder to use. Even though many weren't changed, the increased sp cost on armor makes them tough to use. Mythic boots are different, they're the centerpiece of a build it seems. Its so much work even getting one on, and you should forget adding a 4th skill point onto your build (not like this is much of a thing anymore). But I find myself liking most of the changes. They're so much more powerful now, definitely worth using if you can - like Slayer. +1 tier, high element damages, and loads of raw spell means any build using it will have insane damage. On the topic of Slayer, I disagree with raw melee being removed. I know Slayer tries to lean towards ate but raw melee is a strong support for faster attack speed builds - like thunder and air! And raw melee was one of the biggest ids on Slayer before, so removing it is going to hurt a lot of existing items.

The hive armors are so much better than anything else, especially in the skill point department. They seem to be part of a growing conspiracy to boot out 4 element builds. Their only saving grace is uniques. The changes to uniques are insane, I feel. They're the main bringers of versatility and support builds being more than just 2
I think melee is still in an underwhelming state still. You need tier boost if you want to think about making a melee build still, but the distribution of tier boost items is better. Melee options that aren't tier stack don't seem to offer as much, and that's why I think Valiance and Volcanic are the weakest archetypes in general. Elysium-Engraved isn't the problem with Valiance either, it offers loads of melee damage and good defense and ws. Maybe its this way because of the combination of def and agi makes it too risky to add more to it, but look at Divine. I can't help but think divine is the best because it has absolutely everything going for it but damage. Many of the items give 3 mana like Sky Chef's, The Golem, Hetusol, Boreal, and at the same time they're just really defensive, giving lots of hp and hpr.

There's no doubt that Volcanic is the weakest though, unless you're using a super slow weapon. Its just the worst because to use it you need a rare weapon whose attack speed is the minimum so that you aren't affected by the -tier boost on them. Obsidian-Framed is by far the worst of the new hive items because -2 tier is a far bigger punishment than +1000 raw melee is a reward. Increasing the raw melee on this archetype more is scary because then super slow weapons may feel too strong. I think some general changes need to be made to the archetype itself. Less attack speed reductions (they should still exist just not be on absolutely every item) and more focus on what makes slower weapons good, like mana steal. Having Volcanic be focused on burst spell damage as well as burst melee would be a lot of fun.

can I just say rip cumu (which is now just a completely worse boreal-patterned)

One last thing is a lot of the restrictions on items seems just tacked on for little reason but to make the item system more difficult to use. Like random skill point deductions on items that have no point being there, like https://www.wynndata.tk/ci/beta-darksteel+full+helm . Why does this have -intel? I think its to prevent players from using items out of archetypes, but mixing items in different archetypes is where I expected most of the freedom and creativity to come from. There are many cases where this happens that I can understand why its done, but a lot of it is unnecessary and only makes the item system worse as a whole.