(rant) King's Recruit Is...flawed

I've said the problems I have with the new King's Recruit quest in another thread, but I just can't get over it, and thinking about it has made me realize some other flaws.

I know this might be hard to believe, but even since before Gavel I've never really found any quest to be bad, per say, meaning I don't really despise or never don't look forward to having to do them. Even if one does have a few rough patches and annoying bugs, once it's done, it's done, and there's like 100 other quests to do anyways. Thus, I never really think about or go into much in-depth analysis of any quests.

Except for the new King's Recruit, that is.

First, I'll get the obvious problem out of the way, and that's the lore inconsistency. Well, it's not really inconsistent with the lore in a broad, historical sense, it's just that it doesn't make sense given the context of the situation. You're supposed to be a new recruit to Ragni and the province of Wynn, but you don't even have a weapon. Even if you want to argue that a weapon wouldn't be needed from the trip fro Fruma to Wynn, wouldn't it still make sense for recruits to have some sort of self-defense? And keep in mind, even after you get (craft) a weapon, you're supposed to be automatically trained with it--sure, I can believe a person can fight a handful of zombies just after picking up a spear or a bow or whatever, but after the quest there's no further training. No follow-up dialogue that says, "Hey, you were just a normal guy who wanted to be a <class>, so now we're going to teach you officially now instead of assuming that that cave part gave you all the experience you needed." or not even "Hey, we train most recruits inside of Ragni, but you seem gifted enough, so you can just go out on your own now." The main requirement and skill needed to becoming a soldier just seems to be being able to craft a weapon.
Compared to the previous tutorials, starting off the player with a weapon already implies some prior knowledge to using it, avoiding this situation entirely. You could have trained in Fruma. You could have set out and trained on the way. Who knows, who cares? You have a weapon, and you know how to use it. It's not, you don't have a weapon but you do know how to use one.

I can understand, at the very least, why it was decided to have the weapon introduced later, which leads into my second point: the professions. I'm assuming the idea was for players to learn about gathering and crafting first because it would naturally lead to the creation of a weapon, but this is a problem for several reasons. Of course, there's the lore inconsistency that I already talked about. Then there's the fact that it places way too much emphasis on the profession system, even before combat-based gameplay, which I believe should come first because it is more representative of the Wynncraft experience and helps keep the interest of new players. It's already bad enough that the current tutorial, compared to previous ones, has more lines of dialogue at the beginning (unskippable, too). But now, instead of ramping things up with direct combat (as the pre-Gavel ones did, if I remember correctly) or scenic views with hints of combat and exploration (as the previous one did), there's just the relatively uninteresting profession system (and I say uninteresting not to bash the system entirely, but to say that it's not a very...independent feature, I guess; Exploration and combat would probably do a better job at captivating user interest than gathering and crafting). It's only till the last few minutes when actual combat focused on, and even then its immediately supplanted by the little village area before entering the castle. From a pacing perspective, I actually highly respect the village's implementation, winding down the chase scene prior before entering the Ragni castle and introducing story elements. However, in the context of the rest of the quest, it just makes combat seem like an afterthought, like "Professions, professions, professions, oh, let's add in some combat! And after that, professions, professions..."
In this regard, I'm not saying that the previous tutorial was so much better, either. The only combat you encountered before crossing the chasm was just an optional villager in a cave (it was a cool idea, as it being optional and a, I guess, relatively hard enemy introduces the discovery and dungeon aspect to Wynncraft, which I don't think the newest iteration portrays nearly as well). However, I think its limited focus makes it a better introduction overall. I just feel like there should be a separate quest for introducing professions just like there are for dungeons and elemental damage to make the tutorial faster and more focused. Plus, if you make it separate, then it spares old players the hassle of having to redo the tutorial and waiting through unskippable dialogue and all that (it's fine at first, when you want to learn about how professions work, but when you have to do it for multiple characters it just gets tedious). And if professions really, really, needed to be in the tutorial, why not give the user a weapon in the beginning (thus covering up any plotholes), focus on combat/exploration first (to set the tone for the rest of the game), and then do professions? You could, say, make a new and better weapon and have to use it in a final combat section, or you could have to utilize a non-weapon profession (like, making a potion to prepare for a miniboss or something).

The last major problem I have is the dialogue. To be honest, I've never really payed attention to the dialogue in the game (at least in terms the syntax and vocabulary and all that), only discerning information that's important to the quest/lore at hand. But this is the first time I really, just skimming over it, really noticed the NPC text, and not for a good reason. Most of it is broad and generic (which, I assume is to not overload the player with information), but also redundant.
(taken from the wiki)

• Tasim: So, what do you guys know about Wynn exactly?
• Aledar: Same as you. That the war's been getting worse, so the King of Ragni's been recruiting Fruma soldiers.
• Tasim: I've never seen the Wynn Province before. What do you think it's like?
• Aledar: I think we're about to find out.

See here, the first two lines are fine (although I'm not sure about the colloquial tone here--it feels like, when Tasim addresses you, it's not soldier to soldier or friend to friend, but like the dialogue in one of those AAA game trailers where they pretend real people are playing it, talking in a superficial manner that is supposed to sound natural but really is only there for exposition). The last two lines are just plain redundant, however (I don't even know how to explain it). When Tasim and Aledar aren't giving exposition, their dialogue just doesn't sound very compelling--doesn't hype up the province of Wynn well, doesn't really contribute to their characters, doesn't really do anything.
Furthermore, besides Tasim and Aledar's talking, there's also the Old Man and all the dialogue that's only there to introduce professions. It really just breaks up the flow, where Tasim and Aledar are all like: "Let's go find out about Wynn!", but instead of showing off an epic view of the natural landscape, the fearsome and dangerous corrupted enemies, or a sprawling city full of dozens of players and NPCs, the quest hits you with that

• Old Man: ...You will need to get yourself some raw materials.

Very invigorating stuff.
Lastly, there's really just two segments in particular that I have gripes with not because of the things mentioned above, but because they just feel so out of place.
Firstly, there's:

• Caravan Driver: I swear I hit this same dang boulder every time I make this trip.
• Caravan Driver: Yep, even seems like I got a pile of wasted wheels stacking up.

And later, coming to the broken bridge:

• Aledar: Come to think of it, I don't remember. I know this sounds crazy, but I honestly can't remember anything I did back home.
• Tasim: No, you're not crazy, it's the same for me. It looks like <playername> is suffering from the same amnesia, as well.
• Aledar: It's a mystery for another day, I suppose.

Even if there's another intention behind these lines, it's hard not to perceive them as anything other than little quips made to poke fun at MMOs and stuff, how each new character goes through the same journey, and how their backstories are usually never fleshed out.
(EDIT: Ok so as it has been pointed out the amnesia bit is significant, but what I meant to say that it can still be perceived, by someone who doesn't know the lore, to be satirical, considering it's such an odd thing to point out, and that saying "It's a mystery for another day" is cliched so much that, at least to me, it's meant to poke fun at something.)
This is a problem for two reasons, the first being that it's just way too cheeky, especially for the 1st quest. I mean, Wynncraft has always presented itself to be a MMORPG that likes to take itself seriously, so when you poke fun of typical MMO and fantasy stuff in the 1st quest, then it's almost kind of conceding that ideal of legitimization, telling new players that the game will have a sort of 4th-wall breaking, tongue and cheek sort of humour, even though I'm pretty sure no quest in the game has that (even the more ridiculous quests, like "Out of my Mind" or whatever it is, at least stay grounded in the world at hand, rather than resorting to parodying and 4th wall breaking). Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with such a type of humour--Wynncraft, being an, I guess you could say, indie production, does have hints and touches of it, notably on the hidden signs scattered about the world. But is it really necessary to have it for the 1st quest, of all places? It certainly doesn't appropriately set the tone for the rest of the game, or even the quest at hand.
The second problem is that it kind've fails at a parodying too, or at least it does, just in the worst way possible. If I were a new player who knew little to nothing about Wynncraft, I probably wouldn't understand these two segments, even if I had plenty of experience in other MMOs. I haven't played that many, but the events they poke fun at--a caravan driver crashing their cart into a boulder and the new characters not having their memories--doesn't seem very indicative of the genre, and thus sounds way too specific to provide any satire about MMOs and medieval fantasy or whatever as a whole. It almost really just sounds like they are poking fun at themselves, and Wynncraft as a whole, which, again, sounds further counterproductive in trying to make the game take itself seriously. A quest that parodies other quests in the game sounds humorous and makes the player appreciate spending time in and getting to know the game. A tutorial that parodies itself...not so much.

I don't mean to entirely bash this quest or its creators--the thing is, there are also some good elements about the quest too. I think it's much more realistic how you aren't just a recruit on your own (with Tasim and Aledar there to accompany you), and I think the introduction to spells is done very well (taking a "show, don't tell" approach). I just feel that with these improvements came a lot of flaws that could also be improved upon. I can't stress this enough, but it is the 1st quest, the crucial first 10 minutes of the game where new players quit or stay. These three flaws--having an obvious plothole, focusing too much on professions, and having cheeky humour--on their own in higher level quests, could be excusable, as at that point you'd probably be absorbed in the game enough not to be too miffed or offended. But when you not only concentrate them all into one quest, but into the tutorial of all places, I just don't think it would be very beneficial to both new and old players' experiences.

So, yeah.

EDIT:
TL;DR
1) At least in my opinion, there's a plothole on why soldiers wouldn't carry around their own weapons, and instead have to craft them.
2) Professions takes the spotlight away from combat and exploration and other things that are more representative of Wynn's gameplay and appealing to new players (at least their attention spans).
3) Dialogue is pretty bad at times, both on its own, and the fact it is held back by professions exposition and some quips that poke fun of the game (at least as I interpreted it).
Plus (I didn't really spend too much time talking about this but you probably already know)
4) Can't skip dialogue, which wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to repeat it for all your characters

 

One note about the amnesia: it's actually canonical that anyone who leaves Fruma loses their memory.

I kinda agree with you about several other parts of the quest. I feel like combat is sort of shoved to the side as in "oh boy, kill that one enemy, then that one enemy! And then you'll finally cast a spell despite it being very important!" Professions are given a bit too much time in the spotlight, and I think's it's partially for returning players to learn how it works rather than new players.

I do think that it's by no means one of the worst quests in the game though. It does a superb job of showing off Wynn's amazing builds, mechanics, and use of command blocks and cutscenes. I'd be instantly hooked if I was a new player experiencing King's Recruit for the first time, and it certainly explains the game's features well. I feel like any older player might automatically be a bit biased against the quest, myself included, simply because we've already seen much of what Wynn has to offer.

 

Thank you for putting into words many of my problems with this quest. At the very least, starting with a normal weapon and being told "your weapon is too weak" would be a massive improvement.

 

i disagree on the lore part, as it would make sense to not have a weapon because the corrupted arent even supposed to be there. but other than that yea, i agre with basically all if your points. and the unskippable dialogue is trash.

Also for future reference this should probs be in the feedback section

 

Agree with all of this.

Apply for GM immediately my friend. Please.

Also add a series of quests that detail the players training so they’re actually a fuckin soldier rather than someone who goes around killing people and breaking pots that is known as a soldier.

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No one uses feedback if they want people to actually notice :p

 

I don't see the big importance you place on 'mastering your weapon.' After all, it's not like it's super difficult to swing a spear around.

What I don't particularly enjoy is the colossal importance the tutorial places on professions. The quest implies to new players that weapons are to be crafted. While this may become true in the future, this implication is futile and damaging if crafted items are not the norm. It's also unproductive, in my opinion, to give players four items to deal with in the very first quest (weapon & 3 gathering items). It's asking a lot of a newcomer to learn so many things at once. Ultimately, the new tutorial seems to just be a lot. The old tutorial was much simpler and concise, teaching combat (the main facet of Wynn).

If I could redesign the tutorial & another quest to teach Professions early on and not throw too much onto a newcomer at once, here are some things I would change:

- Revert the tutorial back to the original and retain the woodcutting portion with the tree.
- For Cook's Assistant, I would introduce the professions (these are just some ideas):

- The cook needs help baking a cake. Here's some stuff (s)he needs help with (I think it's a he but you can never be too sure)
- Mining: Mine (something) and give it to the Cook to make a furnace
- Woodcutting: Chop wood to use as fuel
- Farming: Wheat (obviously) :D
- Fishing: Make some other dish requiring fish OR fish cakes because that isn't weird at all (OR we could be one with a tutorial and forget fishing)
- Crafting: Craft a meal! (Cooking)
​

Overall, the benefits to delaying professions are why the tutorial should not include so much emphasis on professions. It's honestly just a lot to handle.

 

the whole amnesia thing iirc was something about some powerful aristocracy in fruma that has control over everything and practices isolationism (in fear of the corrupted), therefore memory-wipes people leaving fruma.

of course, new players don't know this, but i don't think new players will really read into this that much, and most will likely think of it as a plot point that will be explored later on (although you have to go way out of your way to do so, and it's not even completed yet, but that's just the game being incomplete)

i do agree with most of your points from my skimming, though (i also think that some of them aren't very pressing, like the whole weapon thing, but i guess that doesn't take away their presence).

 

Why are we even soldiers anyways? I would much rather prefer to be a traveler from Fruma who left to explore the rest of the world...

Being a soldier is kinda ruined by the fact that you go around doing random shit for random people, you don’t participate in the army or battles or anything, you just kill stuff that you see or are told to kill. I really am against being a soldier in Wynn, I think we should simply be travelers with no recollection of where we were from or who we are, therefore we can create our own storyline rather than all of us just coming from Fruma as soldiers and basically being the entire population of Wynn

 

I dread going through the rest of my classes to get them to a bank. If there was a way to make it go by faster then I'd be fine with it.

 

It's perfectly fine, but here's a suggestion for improving it.

Spoiler: It's a long one

1) Change dialog. Some is just plain annoying and cringy.
2) You get oak wood weapons at the start
2) Rework some parts of the quest. Here's my version of it:
As you exit the gate and enter Wynn, you see a very small corruption spike. (The situation is changed a bit: you are a few blocks above the ground level, on a ledge of sorts)
Tasim: What's that? It looks corrupt. Is it some of the corruption?
Aledar: Yeah, that makes sense. But I didn't think it would be this close to Fruma.
Aledar: Wait, what's happening?
The spike suddenly launches flame-particles everywhere and three zombies appear.
Tasim: Those things be some of the corrupted we heard of on the way here.
Aledar: Come to think of it, I can't remember anything about the trip here, or what we did back home. Is that a side effect of the corruption?
Tasim: No, I don't think so. Anyways, we can talk about that after we kill this group of zombies.
Aledar: We're lucky they're slow and we are on this ledge.
Zombies speed up and start climbing
Tasim: NEVER MIND KILL THEM!
(Replaced the boring old man sequence with a more intresting sequence of exposition and combat)
After the fight, you proceed normally, until the bridge, where the "memory loss" dialogue is removed. It's replaced with Aledar and Tasim speculating the corrupted you killed earlier had destroyed the bridge.
You get past the river with the tree, like usually.
The dialogue changes at the guard.
Guard: I can't let you get past here.
Aledar: Why not?
Guard: A bunch of corrupted somehow sieged the underpass. There are too many of them, your weapons are too weak for them.
Aledar: So what can we do?
Guard: Well, there's a bunch of tools on that rack over there and there are trees, crops and minerals everywhere around here. I figure you can harvest some materials, refine them, and then make some weapons with the refined materials.
Tasim: Fine, follow me.
*The normal gathering/harvesting tutorial here*
*Rest of the quest as normal, with the first encounter with the cave zombies being changed*

Changes in this:
-More combat
-More exposition
-Feels more natrual
-Less harvesting
-Explains why you don't need training: you were already armed when you got to the guard, so the guard assumed you could use the weapons.
-Shows how dire the situation in wynn is: the corruption got like 5 feet away from Fruma.
-Might overwhelm the new player with information, though.

Just my idea for changing the tutorial. I know it's probably not gonna change, but I felt like it could be a lot better. I wrote this as a "proof of concept" of sorts (Though there's probably a pitfall I fell into somewhere)

 

I didn’t read the full text so i would appreciate it if there was a TLDR (too long didn’t read), i will read it later.
The only problem i see with the quest is that it didn’t introduce identified items it only introduce crafted item is the only thing in the game, i would like if they add in the zombie section when you kill the zombie you get an unidentified helmet and they talk about what it is.

 

Sorry you weren't a fan of the new tutorial, but hopefully I can clear a few things up:

• The player is not given a weapon because they were expected to be given one in Ragni upon their arrival and recruitment into the army. Of course, as both the old man and the guard tell you, the undead making it this far out is not normal, so you weren't expected to need to fend off undeads on your way there.
• We consider professions to be an important part of the game now. We wanted to teach them to the player early on to avoid them seeming too complex to players later on. If it were taught in a side quest instead, and you missed it, you might be level 50 and never find out how crafting works because it'll seem too overwhelming. I understand that as an experienced player who isn't used to the professions it might be hard to see their value, but we do consider them to be equally important to combat. This update radically shifted how we design the world of the game in many ways and professions are a large part of that. And if they're really not your thing, you can still breeze past that section in a minute or two.
  
• I noticed others in this thread feel like the profession section tells you that crafting weapons are more important than they actually are, but I think finding weapons from mobs is fairly self-explanatory and doesn't need to be taught to the player.
• As for your complaint about unskippable dialogue, the system we used to make many aspects of the tutorial possible would make it difficult to let you skip through dialogue, as it's effectively more cutscene than quest. However, this is something I would like to change in the future.
• Aledar and Tasim bringing up amnesia isn't intended to be a meta reference. If you pay close attention to other parts of the game you'll know there's a reason why they talk about this. It'd be weird if neither Aledar and Tasim didn't bring up amnesia at all considering it's part of the lore. The line about hitting the rock every time is exactly what you think it is, though.

Hopefully this will clear up why certain choices were made. Thank you for your feedback!

Believe it or not, we actually didn't use any command blocks in the new tutorial. Our spiffy new quest system can do quite a lot!

 

It definitely felt strange that Elemental Exercise didn't reward you with a powder or anything...

 

Really?

Maybe that needs to be clearer. It makes the player look more like a Mary Sue than they already are. If they had already trained him/her & now to save money they're sending them there and then just giving them weapons at Ragni, it needs to be directly said, without that explanation it makes the Player look like just a weakness-less prodigy that immediately can use magic and fight with a weapon 3 seconds after being given one! And out of game it just makes it seem like the devs just reaaallyy wanted you to use the crafting way

 

The music stopping halfway through for no reason (when getting to the broken bridge part) doesn't make things any better too.

 

This would be much faster if we can forward the dialogue like other npcs.