I Hate Wynncraft

uh oh, you've angered the mad bull

 

I was eating alphabet soup noodles and after I took a dump, the words in the toilet bowl warned me of the impending collapse of the stock markets and the threat of hyperinflation from all the excess money going into the economy. Next, they rearranged themselves and spoke of how paper money will become worthless if countries abused the printing press to continuously pump cash into the economy, and its detrimental effects to society and standard of living. Black markets will emerge, barter trading will become commonplace. How dire! But I guess actions speak louder than words, and so fellow players, this is how the Economy Update was born.

 

While a lot of the work that the CT does is impressive and I enjoy each and every update, I do think that the game would benefit immensely from the completion of the fabled Main Storyline Questline Thingamajig that lord Salted prophesied the coming of many moons ago. As it stands, Wynncraft has some phenomenonal episodic quests (some better than others, obviously). It even has exceptionally well-written sagas, like Wynn Excavation, Aldorei Valley, and generally Corkus. While these quests are outstanding in their own right, Wynn still lacks one major component: a sense of continuity.

For an example of why continuity can make a good story many magnitudes better, let's look at what is arguably the best animated television series: Avatar - the Last Airbender. This show has fantastic episode after fantastic episode, brilliant animation, fight choreography, character development, lore, and more. The majority of the first season is episodic in nature, meaning that the episode's conflict is introduced, developed, and resolved by the end of the 20 minute segment.

While this would be plenty good enough for your standard run-of-the-mill television series, Avatar - the Last Airbender sets itself apart from all others and is elevated to a whole new level of fame by one simple, 3-word phrase: "Previously, on Avatar...". This. This right here. This phrase establishes that each episode has meaning. Each and every episode affects every episode that follows, and is affected by every episode that came before it. It means that when the newest 20 minute episode ends, the world of Avatar isn't just reset to a state of normalcy, wiped clean of whatever tragedies or world-shaking events occurred in the past 20 minutes. What happened, happened. And what happened will affect Aang and his friends for the rest of their fictional lives.

On the other hand, in Wynncraft, a majority of the quests players go through don't seem to have much of a lasting effect on the world. I understand that in multiplayer minecraft servers like this, it's nigh impossible to change the way the world works from player to player, but already the CT has begun to find ways to create a sense of continuity and change in some of the more recent quests. NPCs like those in Detlas change their passive dialogue when you complete certain quests, like Maltic's Well. I'd like to see the GMs double down on that, and perhaps find more creative ways to slightly alter the way the world works based on certain quest completions. Those small details really help with immersion, and I feel there is so much more potential to develop this further.

More importantly, however, Avatar - the Last Airbender has a single, clear, and well-defined goal set out in the very first episode: Aang needs to defeat the fire lord, end the world war, and restore balance to the world. The story has one endgame purpose that drives every subplot amd ties the 3 season series together. The story has a spine. When Aang travels across the world from city to city, nation to nation, he has the clear goal of learning the techniques and skills he'll need to take down Fire Lord Ozai and finish his true mission. He learns from everyone he meets, and helps those that he can along the way. Every story that Aang and his friends go through eventually ties back into his ultimate goal to bring peace to the world, the spine of his story.

Conversely, Wynncraft feels much more disjointed and directionless. The protagonist we play as in Wynn feels more like a nomadic mercenary following work across the provinces, rather than a hero with a clear purpose in life. In Wynn, there isn't really a Big Bad Evil Guy to direct your efforts towards defeating. Sure, there are vague references to some demonic presence in Dern whose named is known only to be The Eye, but aside from it (whom we have yet to see any incarnation of in-game), there are really only these tenuous, abstract forces of good and evil in the Light, the Decay, Corruption, etc. to chase after. There is no clear end point to the story, no climax to work towards. Wynn has no spine.

All of that being said, creating a main storyline of quests - a spine for Wynncraft - is definitely no small task, especially with the 120 or so quests, dozens of discoveries, amd other extraneous world-building and lore that already exists. Trying to find a way to make all of that fit together around a single plot thread is a daunting task to say the least, but one that must be addressed. Without that singular unifying plot thread for the story of your character to pivot around, everything else falls flat. As it stands, the story of Wynn is not much more than a conglomeration of well-written side quests.

TL;DR - Main Storyline is desperately needed to tie together the dozens of quests and discoveries that shape the world, otherwise nothing has much of any meaning since there is no end goal in mind to work towards.

 

I come back to lurk on this thread and this is the first thing I see
ok goodbye I'm going to go try and get more people to unironically use me

 

That's not at all what I mean, it wasn't random, the game is fun for a reason.
What I mean is you can tell when something isn't professionally designed.
Rather that be simple flaws in actual mechanics, a lack of human understanding in detection, so on.
Its not to say its randomly selected design, that doesn't work on any level. Its much more to say its undoubtedly a project done by a community of passionate people, and not professionals in a studio.

Ps, that's not meant to be an insult to the team in anyway. It litteraly is a community feed project. If I had to make a comparison, its a fan game, like new California is to fallout new vegas.

Its not bad, its great really, its just when you look really hard at it, you can see its flaws. Where it fails, and where it succeeds in terms of design, rather that be of the map, quest, or mechanics.

 

I think he kinda has a point here. I can name quite a few who disagree with the playstyles of multiple classes. And the descriptions provided on places like the wiki and the wynncraft help page don't match the descriptions that developers have given me for classes.

Ex: Nobody told me that by signing up for Warrior, I was signing up for a taunt tank.
If tanks need area denial, and Warrior's your tank, just play Archer. Bomb does a better job than any of Warrior's spells.

 

The game fails at basic game design...alright. Point taken. So, do you have any solutions or advice to how we can make the game more professional-looking?

 

When I said basic, I meant the small things. (Not basic as in the core design, I was trying to say basic as in simple, and small details.)

And yeah, but that would be on a quest by quest basis.

Besides that I have offered some ideas over the years, like my fix defense thread.
(I understand if this isn't a satisfactory answer for you if you would like on a personal basis we could ether discuss this in a call or over discord chat. Would be fun I feel)

I'm sorry if this seems rude to you guys, just understand, every game has its flaws on some level. Its Not that any individual one of you is bad at doing there job. Its more that its a passion based group made of a community of people who aren't particularly professional, so there again will be flaws.

If you do want to chat about it, message me on discord jaydon123ada#6763

 

Oof big. Ok lets see.

Look understand adding features in something like this is legitmentally a unforgiving and difficult task.

But acting as if there aren't flaws wouldn't be legitment, and I know you understand that, you agreed on that point.

I would like to thank you, and the whole of the team for working as hard as you have to bring us what we have gotten.

And I'm not trying to say you guys don't know what your doing, thats still not what I mean. You guys aren't stupid.
Plenty of smaller developers make amazing products, some of my favorite games of all time.

What I am trying to say is some flaws do legitmenttaly come from a lack of knowledge in game design. A example can be the over use of barriers, a game designer who understands human physiology would use lighting, leading lines, and suggestive map making to make players go where they want to go.

Thats mostly on the side of map makers of course, the builders, but it's still a asset of game design.

That's not to say the builders are bad, or have no idea what they were doing. If you guys were bad you wouldn't have barriors at all. There is clearly a level of understanding in the content team, I simply mean to say you aren't trained professionals and sometimes you can see it, when you can't, your passion shines though.

Obviously I'm not saying you guys are completely unskilled and unaware, or else I wouldn't still be playing the server.

And yes, the game has, and will continue to get better.
Again thank you for putting effort into, and making this product, without you guys it wouldn't have been a thing, and I would have another 3800 hours of productive human activity (ok well maybe not productive)

 

Hi

Spoiler

fix mob grinding

Also

where was this when I tried to Plague solo LI. Happy it's coming tho.

 

It's not exactly the answer what I wanted, but I am very glad that you spoke from your point of view. I never thought to think of looking at these problems from a developer/GM's perspective, which I guess is why I got really frustrated when there are problems that have existed for since Gavel's release that haven't been fixed, yet more potential unnecessary grinding content are being added in the next update.

The main point that I decided to post this thread was because it felt like there was so many problems with the game, and it seemed just like you said: "All these games I played had such dumb and easy to see flaws, why aren't the dev just doing it properly? Why are they wasting time doing X when it's obvious everyone would want Y instead?". It felt like the dev's wanted to go one way when the community wanted another. It really feels like there sometimes is a lack of communication in Wynn, which frustrated me to the point that I wrote out all my grievances and spat them in the middle of the Wynncraft Forums.

So again, I can't say I'm content with the answer I got from you, but I am very glad that you did answer.

 

I use uphairs lightmap so i can't tell what's lit and not, maybe i should turn it off so i can know where to go and not run into barriers as much lol

 

Specifically I meant the over use of barriers in dungeons. And smaller uses in some quest.

Thought I might go ahead and add some more to this.

I understand you already use some of these tricks in map design. But a lack of understanding is shown when almost every player does run into the same invisible wall everytime they do the skeleton dungeon.

I.e. any of them that could allow you to jump down instead of following the stairs.

This is mostly because we will always follow the simplest or fastest way we can possibly do something.
Some easy fixes might be, don't add them at all, it doesn't change much. This is how you guys thought in fallen factory and it works, its why I like its parcore so much.

Alternatively (I'm thinking of a specific example this time) the big overlook at the skeleton dungeon, 2 things could be done. Try adding some clear reward to the left or right side, like mobs seeing as it is a grinding section.
Or using a leading line to one side or the other to make it clearly ether the right or left side.

Generally speaking offering a player a choice to what side to follow like that won't work to well, espessly sense they lead to the same place.

I understand that may super nit picky, and it is. I'm just attempting to point out a time I did actual notice this.

Some positive examples you guys use in this very dungeon. The 2 mages after you do the small set of parcore pull you right or left, because they are on both sides and are ranged.

The use of elmarld blocks and the lighting of the door in the huge room is, while basic, a good use of this aswell.

I get you guys made this a while back, then redesigned it slightly in a new update. So its design maybe simply slightly outdated.

Like fallen factory, which is newer, does solve most issues I may have with some of the dungeons, its much more free, and less restrictive, but does pull you in set directions.

 

People will probably just take the middle road anyway, with or without indicators. That's just how people work. Meanwhile this kind of design seems to be missing in other cases. Olux's identifier, for instance, has an entrance that's facing away from the bank. It's kind of on the road to the east exit, but the road splits with one section leading to the bank and the other going around the identifier's building. This leaves the identifier's entrance in a pretty awkward spot. In my opinion the identifier's location would make much more sense where the powder master is now, being able to access both the item buyer and bank quite easily.

It's a very small thing, but if we are going to judge Wynncraft's map design by the little things, issues like these should also be mentioned.

 

I agree on the 2nd example, but its unfair to say the first.

Players may naturally follow the middle path, but plenty of them would simply choose not to, as freedom is given.

What they did was make it seem like its the players idea to go center, even if it isn't. The slightly wider road, stores down the center path, the gate clearly being visible as soon as you leave the castle.

Small things like that will pull the player to think there doing what they want to do, but in reality will be following subjestive paths for them to follow. Its not at all ignoreable, and deserves a clap for them team.

________________________________

Also jinx.
Kinda lol.