Assassin/Ninja Cata Build

I've just been looking on this thread as a means of entertainment to see the arguments, and I am thoroughly entertained. Also optimum doesn't mean the best, it just means good enough in most peoples dictionary. Also, a build that has 10/4 MR and does around 15k spins vs a build that has 4/4 MR and does around 17k spins? No competition the one with 10/4 is gonna win because it can sustain itself.

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I do have a build, I'll post it later when I get on

 

To summarize you got some flaws in your logic.
First, the definition of 'Optimism' is best.
I never said it's the best cata build
Second, I blamed you for not giving answers while criticizing and not just for criticizing
Third, what I mean low cost cata build is about relativity
You'll probably agree that almost all cata builds are expensive because it includes slayer but this build doesn't and I meant that
Fourth, just because you can dodge charge and meteor doesn't mean you can win the boss. Spells are just what makes it more powerful. I'm talking about it's own nature having strong thunder ele def and high melee damage as well as high walk speed that's why I can't beat it.

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I kinda enjoyed debating with you guys but guess you didn't find it interesting.
I don't get why you said the last sentance but sure former is better and I said I accept it tho it kills cata's individuality. Remember in game I thanked for your build?
And good enough has the word of 'decent' but not optimal in my vocabulary. Am I wrong? Maybe you should find it again on dictionary

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According to Oxford dictionary 'optimal' means
'Best or most favourable' it's quite different from just being good enough

 

I felt I didn't have to because people other people already had said what I was going to say. I suppose I was wrong.

You said I hadn't given anything outside of negative criticism, which is incorrect, and are now trying to shift what I said to something different.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You just dismiss these types of builds by basically just saying "ok" and not considering it at all.

You asked for criticism the moment you clicked "create thread". Everytime we try to give you criticism, you dismiss it and say "hey it works though", and keep trying to argue that the build is better than the the criticism of it that we provide. Despite what you claim, you are trying to argue that it is optimal.

People that had given you answers you ignored or just dismissed it for the most part (mainly @by2011 and his improved version of your build).

I haven't seen that many builds using slayer honestly, and imo it is better to use something along the lines of memento or sine instead.

Oh really now?
You yourself said spin attack stops charge, did you not? Spin attack can also, you know, blind everything it hits and shutdown that melee and ws, leaving only the spells (which are easy to dodge according to you) left to be a threat. Also, cata should be able to easily pierce Cybel's defense with killstreak as people have mentioned. If I can pierce Cybel def with an ignition build by endurance stacking, you can do the same by killstreak stacking. You could also always just bring a secondary as well if your weapon can't penetrate the enemy, but it seems people don't do that often for some reason.
At this point I'm going to stop though because you clearly don't want the criticism, nor have you proven to me that you actually care about what I have to say. Better if I stop now then continue because this will continue forever.

 

Then don't reply to my thread lmao if you keep blaming my thoughts I will keep on protecting myself from the blame.
First of all again, spin attack blinds opponents only for a short time as I said my Cata is hybrid and there can be a miss you can't actually hit with spin attack all
the time
Second since when did by2011 gave me a improved build? He hadn't. We went on about nirvana vs cata which was quite out of the point and what he sent me was nirvana build.
Third, it is actually quite cheap to use my build. The only thing can be quite pricey is 4 4 memento. For vaward you can use a bad one.
Fourth, I said rate this build please not criticize this build
Fifth, since you hadn't given me a substitue build, I had to just oppose to your opinion since I thought I was right. The only way to prove that you are right is through making a build, and you shouldn't have just criticized my behavior for defending my opinion if you didn't have much of a better option.
Sixth please look above I found it on a dictionary that optimal means best and I
never thought my build was best. Personally I think of slayer build is best. And the things I was saying is to support my opinion on the build being quite usable.
Seventh, I do consider. Look up above I complimented the upside of inferno's
build and pointed out the downside of it.

Ps. Since when had I said you were just criticizing me?

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The reason I said you were just criticizng is that it doesn't mean that you were JUST criticizing it means that you were just criticizing and hadn't given me an answer. It's my fault on that if it sounded as first one

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If you don't say anything now I'll just assume you didn't have a word to say

 

Even though I said I wasn't going to respond, I am responding to this one in particular because it shows how you ignored our comments even more and since I involved 2011 into this I am going to defend him.

Oh would you look at that it's a cata build.
Huh.
All the other things you've said contradict multiple things you've said before and if I respond to them you won't care.

 

I would care. Say it for me? And I cared all of your previous comment enough to answer them in order.
Ok I was wrong about how I said he didn't show me a cata build. But seriously I didn't know he made me a cata build. He may have edited it while I was typing my reply but it's my fault that I hadn't noticed it. However if you look at my reply after that you would notice that we were arguing about Nirvana vs Cata and not about his build is bad or not.

 

ye i did edit it shortly after i sent the message (like 5 minutes after)

 

Just because I oppose your opinion doesn't mean that I do not care. And like I said before you too have a flaw in your logic
ex) thinking of boss only having spell attack because assassin got spin attack

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Ok well your build is great
I would like to comment your build like tseries said but it's great so let's just get on with that

 

@Tseries posted this https://wynndata.tk/s/6cZCMV
It's almost as good as this: https://wynndata.tk/s/LBaxc0
Right now that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the current best Cata build that I could find by @Robbee originally posted as a response to my mythic ranking thread. I keep seeing Leo referenced with Cata, but genuinely don't agree with it being better than a high skill point boost chest. @Ceciliyaa prove me wrong?

IMO: The problem that Cata really has is high DEX req. High DEX or STR are easily the worst/least-useful skill point requirements to have because they only increase damage output, and in the case of DEX only increase a chance for higher damage. That's personally my problem with Cata. Everything about Cata is down to chance. Do you get enough SPs on your items? Do you have a good enough Cata to even use? (roughly -4.5k or better) Do you roll high on damage? or worse: Will your build even work next patch? The build by @Robbee only gets a 6 SP margin for error after the patch using 100% roll items. Even with 75% rolls on all SPs, you fall 10 to 12 SPs short. With 100% rolls on third eye and medeis, and flat 80% roll vaward you'll still fall 4 SP's short. That's almost the best case scenario, short of literally getting all 100% SP rolls. That doesn't even consider defense %, mana, or spell damage. There're too many variables IMO. Cata requires a lot for being only 2-3k higher avg damage on spins than the other mythic daggers and significantly harder to manage in its entirety. Glass is actually a great metaphor for Cata because, like glass, it is rigid, lacks flexibility, is easy to break, and a pain to work with.

 

Very well then.

Again, you are dodging what I said. What I said was that you keep repeating over and over again that you think the build is not optimal, yet every time we argue something you say "hey it works" to try and make it seem like it's optimal. At this point I'm just going to stop arguing with this point and move on.

Also, you are trying to insult us repeatedly which is childish of you, saying things like "lmao" implying that you are not taking this seriously, and "git gud" implying that you believe you are better than everyone else who doesn't use this build. This is part of the reason I wanted to stop, as it seems to me you are getting entertainment out of an argument that you don't seem to care about rather than having an actual debate with us.

I'm sorry but what?
Spin attack has quite a large aoe and if you somehow miss to hit said spin attack then that's your own fault. Being a hybrid literally has nothing to do with this and the build isn't even hybrid to begin with. Also, spin attack only blinds for short periods of time yes, but if you had the proper mana sustain to stunlock this would never be an issue (which your build does not have).

This I agree with if we ignore that it is cataclysm.

So let me get this straight.
You would rather have us just give you a rating such as "Ok 3/5" and provide no explanation as to why?
That literally goes against practically everything you have said up to this point.

I had a much better option that you dismissed entirely when I posted it anyways. I agree that I should've made a substitute build before this even though others had before us, but it seems that whenever I would've posted it you would dismiss it the same way.

I'm well aware of what optimal is, but like I said earlier I'm going to stop arguing with it.

You just now started considering, yet before you dismissed practically everything like it was nothing. Also, everyone acts like not being "individual" or "unique" is bad, when in reality it is not when it comes to actually using a build, so that "flaw" you made about it not being "individual" is irrelevant.

This is what I thought you meant so thank you for clarifying.

While I am trying my best to not insult you unless you have insulted me (such as replying with "can you guys read"), this is immature. I offered to stop, and what do you do instead? This. You could've said all the stuff above it and I wouldn't have cared (outside of the thing with 2011 since I dragged him back into this), but then you add this. Again, it seems like all you're doing is getting entertainment out of this.

Basically the same last sentence above.

Now I'm just confused.
You said charge and meteor are easy to dodge. You then say the reason you can't beat Cybel is because of A. defense and B. melee+walkspeed. Spin attack literally takes care of B entirely, as does ice snake for mage and arrow shield/leap for archer. This leaves only the spells (and possibly any random minions) left to be a threat, which all spells outside of apparently flamethrower are easily dodge-able. You then try to argue that it's because spin attack just "misses", which is not true and is the fault of the player. By the looks of it, you are trying to dismiss what I've said again because I only "think" that it is the case.

You are also now trying to divert this entire conversation to something else; personal flaws. I'm going to use myself as an example to not target anyone else, but it's like someone saying to me"Oh, you like doing Ice Barrows? Well I consider that to be bad so your opinion is irrelevant on everything related to that topic", which makes it just seem like you're being rude (intentional or not). Don't try to divert the direction of what we are actually debating because it makes it seem even more like you are trying to go around any types of points made directed at the build you have created.

Opposing my opinion doesn't mean you don't care, sure. The way you respond to me and everyone else makes it seem that you don't care to me.

 

Hey have you ever read what I said about optimal? It means 'best'. Since when did I say my build is best? Don't you think you are the one who is keeping on dodging my opinion? I said my build is just usable and that doesn't make me saying my build is optimal. [Edit] seems like you read what optimal is. But why ignoring it? Contradict my idea if you have more words to say about it

Since I concluded that you can not read when I write long paragraph, try to read just this you'll get why you see like I'm repeating the things you said

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Summary of ^
: 'hey that works' doesn't mean it's optimal there is a better word for 'decent'

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And when I use lmao or stuff it means that you're too stubborn to give up some of your thoughts I admit what I wrote wrong but you keep on saying your thoughts are right and doesn't give up the fight.
Something has to be done when you want this whole thing to end

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While I do this stuff out of entertainment it's partially because of my reputation.
If I give up now I'll be seen as a loser who has a little sense of expressing ideas

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And if you see the first comment I just pressed like. why? He just rated me and there is no explanation to be done. If you add the words of criticizing I keep feeling like pointing out your misconceptions because I have thoughts too you know

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Ok you are getting out of point now.
What were we talking about? We, I mean you were talking about whether I said cybel can be soloed with this build or not. And you criticize my build for not having mana regen??
Hmm.... ok another build with cata having plenty of mana regen can solo cybel
But it's their build. I said my build can not solo cybel. The build has less mana regen like everyone pointed out so I get killed by cybel. Yes, you just gave me a supporting idea why I can not solo cybel which contradicts to your opinion

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Can you point out when I dismissed other people's build? I accepted it all
Which would have applied same to you

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Ok it's my fault but you sure you don't make any mistakes when you fight boss? I mean you can miss your attack due to other mini mobs attacking you from the other side.
And what is hybrid? It's a melee+spell, and this build uses melee as well as spell that makes it a hybrid. If you don't like my definition,perhaps you can say your own definition?

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Being hybrid does matter.
If it was a nirvana you have more spell attacking time which blinds cybel for more time, making it quite like what you said before: the cybel doesn't have time to melee attack you. But it doesn't apply to my build which has low mana regen making it hard to solo cybel

 

Nvm forget what I said let's just end this. I'll keep the reply so that you can refer to.
It's getting quite annoying.
If you do reply then I'll have to say agin even if it's the same thing I told before but don't reply let's just end this

 

I've read over everything you've said.

-I say Ik what the word optimal means.
-Continues to try and insult me by saying I can not read.
So I see you've resorted to insults even more and this is no longer a legitimate argument like I predicted.

So what we both are doing?
You and me are both being stubborn right now, whether you want to admit it or not.

Would have?
Okay I guess my opinion doesn't matter then (oh wait we already established that I forgot sorry about that).

So everything you have said up to this point about how we should provide better options and such when criticizing is bs then?
Good to know.

So I was right.
This is all for your own enjoyment and apparently your own ego and value that over an actual debate.

You've basically confirmed everything I've said or thought about you. You don't care about what we actually say because you didn't want the criticism in the first place (making every point you have said after about how we should've provided better criticism literal bs), you are doing this for your own entertainment, and you attempt to undermine others credibility through the use of multiple insults (subtle or direct) in order to boost your own ego and reputation.

I am not going to waste any more of my time arguing against someone who doesn't care, and I should've done so before like I said I was going to. At least I gave you the entertainment you wanted.

Oh my bad sorry to ruin your fun then.

 

No probs it was quite fun to me before so doesn't matter

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And just to add I hadn't agreed everything with you I just agreed partially that it was for my own joy

 

What? How are you seen as a loser for seeing the logic in anothers argument and accepting it? On the contrary it makes you seem like a better person overall who is ready to listen to others and change based on that criticism, not a loser. Far from it, what you're doing is the antithesis of making people think that you're not a loser. And so it too has confirmed to me that you weren't trying to clear "misconceptions" about your build, it was just for your own entertainment. Well, I'll admit I had some fun along the way too. But it was mostly from you contradicting yourself.

 

I have

I have more to say but I don't want this to go in loop so I am going to stop talking. You too please stop talking it's getting less entertaining now