Serious When Does Religious Freedom Supersede Medical Treatment?

When I see articles such as this and this, I've always wondered why it's legal (in some states) for parents to deny their children medical treatment in life-threatening situations under the banner of "religious freedom" while we don't allow people to sacrifice their children to the Sun God. While one could say doctors aren't perfect either, they are much more knowledgeable and experienced and have limitations to what they can do (like doctors need your consent in order for you to receive experimental treatment versus conventional treatment).

What do you guys think about this? Should parents be allowed to deny medical treatment for their children no matter the situation, including vaccines? Where do you draw the line between religious freedom and the need for medical treatment?

 

I don't think they should be allowed to do that and especially not when it's dangerous for other children too, like with vaccinations.

 

No. Absolutely not. I think it's absolutely insane to deny your child medical treatment. Now, here I will admit that I am neither religious nor a parent, so my views may not perfectly encompass all sides of the argument.


I get that a lot of people are very devout and incredibly dedicated yo their religion, which is a little admirable in some ways (and dumb in some others), and some people's entire lives are their religion. But I definitely believe that life comes before religion. I hesitate to say life comes before belief, as I am pro-choice, but that's a whole other topic. I really think its wrong to deny your child medical treatment, especially during childhood when they are weaker than an adult.


Even worse are people who deny even incredibly basic healthcare like vaccines despite not being entirely religious, using baseless claims like that vaccines cause allergies or autism or that vaccines are toxic (yet again a topic for another time).


Even worse, there are parents who will purposefully infect their children with deadly diseases to 'strengthen their immune system. This reminds me of a story I read a couple months back about parents who forced their young children with autism to drink MMS and bleach as a 'cure'. I really think there's no excuse not to properly treat your child, or at least be educated enough to know basic things. Aside from possibly the cost, I believe no valid or good excuse to exist as to why not to give your child proper medical treatment or health education.

 

(I'm gonna take it that most of these persons exercising their piety at the cost of their offspring are Christians because of the articles).

I used to go to an institution of the Spanish Inquisition a Catholic school, which, as implied by the name, had re-education facilities Religious Education as a mandatory course up until year 11. During my term of brainwashing education there, some things stuck to me. Besides all the Golden rules about loving thy neighbour and whatnot, I was forced upon the fact that told that the reason for all this was because God IS a part of everything (so treat everyone/thing as a shrine of God).

So, from my tormentor's own version of a religious point of view, this religious freedom from medical treatment is stupid and goes against (what I think are) key Christian principles (which haven't been exercised well throughout the Church's history tbh). So, if your child is a temple of God, shouldn't you go about repairing it if it is being destroyed?

I've seen holes in what I've said, I might fix them later. But even from a religious point of view, denying your child of medical attention is stupid (I can't speak for all religions or branches of Christianity though).

 

I mean no. Regardless of your religious freedom, why would you let your own child be killed by a disease that could be prevented with a vaccine or medical treatment?
Even looking at it from a religious standpoint (which may be difficult as I am an atheist) God gave people dominion over the Earth. Everything that exists is from God. Some may argue that because these diseases exist, it is God’s plan that people should suffer from them. However, he gave mankind the technology and the intelligence to also take these diseases and create vaccines from them. If god were to exist, he would not have a problem with mankind simply being resourceful and caring for each other. The religious argument at that point becomes completely BS.

 

It’s not the whole of Christianity, it’s mostly small groups of couples that just happen to be Christian. Even more extreme sects like the Amish take medicine and vaccines. Though, I think only Jehovah’s witnesses don’t believe in medication.

I have friends who went to a Catholic school too, and they don’t believe in refusing medical treatment. Though it sounds by your description that your experience was much harsher, and I can see how that lesson could be misconstrued into that.

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Do you think it would be a bit too far to institute mandatory vaccination? Sure, public institutions like schools already require it, but people can and still don’t get vaccinated. Which can cause old diseases to re-emerge and mutate, like measles. So then why should someone else suffer an 18th century disease because of your actions?

 

Tbh, it wasn't too harsh, I actually found the parts about the early Church and other history bits interesting, but I wish there was more on other religions as well. Most of the time it was just boring.

 

I gotcha. I mean it was a Catholic school. It’s not like a Buddhist school would teach Christianity.

Though I get what you mean. That’s why I enjoy watching YouTube because you can get all kinds of informative content on there. I recommend Crash Course if you want to learn about other world religions.

 

Ah yes, I really enjoy their content. I have turned in a number assignments late due to them. After the Catholic school though, I moved to a Buddhist country for a few years, and have now moved onto a Muslim one. I have to say, I have grown quite an appreciation for religions now after all that.

 

Of course vaccinations should be mandatory. They prevent between 2 and 3 million deaths a year, they are basically harmless, the amounts of other substances in a vaccine don’t cause any damage (while vaccines contain aluminium which strengthen immune response, the amount is so minimal it does not harm the body at all), they do not cause autism like some claim and if you were not vaccinated even if your immune system is strong enough to deal with the disease it protects against those who don’t or who couldn’t get vaccinated for medical reasons. There is so reason, scientific or religious to not be vaccinated.

 

No because we know the vaccines are safe, the companies making the vaccines barely make any money from it so they don't gain much and it is important for the health of our society that a lot of people are vaccinated. The only people who shouldn't get vaccinated are people who are allergic to certain things in the vaccine. The videos of dumb parents who prefer pseudoscience over actual science who brag how their kids are healthy and not vaccinated are stupid, their kids aren't sick because the other kids are vaccinated.

 

It’s often because certain religions oppose medicine and ban their followers from using it. I think that stuff like vaccines should still be mandatory, but lots of people will be really angry. We can’t really do that much about it, since those people would just stage protests until we let them not practice medicine.

 

Yes. I believe all vaccines that are practically available should be mandatory for everyone. By practical, I mean like within, say, 100 miles that is travellable either by public transport or car. 1 car trip every couple years is hardly a big price to pay for something that can save your life.

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I highlighted that for a reason. A. Those claims are baseless B. What price is that for life saving, wide spread, convenient medical treatment? C. Can someone explain me the huge phobia of autism? I know that many people have heard 'horror stories' about illiterate, nonverbal, or otherwise mentally afflicted autistic people, but I think this is a huge misrepresentation of Autism as a whole. I, personally have high functioning autism and was diagnosed with ASD at around age 7. I'm here, literate, mathematically capable, and pretty much top of my class (tho US education system is deeply flawed, another subject, so top of the class isn't too hard (No I'm not trying to brag. I'm trying to say that people with Autism are underestimated and can achieve great heights too)). I just think that autism is deeply misrepresented in today's society (can someone make an autism related thread pls I have more to say). I'm a well functioning, stable, independent person that has ASD. Don't. You. Fucking. Think. Autism. Is. Worse. Than. It. Is. Yes, there are people that have severe autism related learning disabilities. But that's only in very extreme cases. For every 1 person who's life has been ruined or setback by their ASD there are 100 people who have had autism and still lead well functioning, stable lives.

'They are basically harmless, the amounts of other substances in a vaccine don’t cause any damage'

^^
While old vaccines used to contain tiny amounts of mercury, and were completely harmless still, modern vaccines contain no mercury of any kind. A lot of people still think vaccines are deadly and have mercury like bruh ??!?!?!?

I'm not sure about the exact effects of aluminum on the human body, but given that the amount of aluminum is so incredibly minuscule it could not possibly have any negative impact.

as for the other ingredients, I'm not sure about as I haven't read up on the ingredients of vaccines so :/

 

One word.

NO

People right now are already dying from disease, yet as a parent, refusing to protect your child from that disease? It's unacceptable.

 

We actually studied this in Biology so here goes.
*Inhale*
In 1998, Dr. Andrew Wakefield and 12 other researchers produced a paper that linked the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine to autism. Justification is kinda sketchy but the research had something to do with malabsorption in the gut due to this, made the kids more susceptible to autism. The study involved 12 children who had the MMR vaccine, and 8 of them developed autism.

So what’s the issue?

First of all it was revealed that Wakefield was being paid a significant amount by pharmaceutical companies for his research, as the paper would dissuade people from getting the vaccine, making them more susceptible to infection and they would therefore pay more for treatment and medicines. Not only that but the study itself was flawed. A sample size of 12 children is so low, and there was no control. Moreover, the 8 autistic children were diagnosed with autism before they were even vaccinated.

At the end of the day, 8 international bodies declared the paper as fraudulent and 10 of the 13 researchers have since retracted the claims they made.

Thing is, even if the vaccine did cause autism it begs the question, would you rather your child grow up autistic or dead?

(Also @FranceDance It’s a nice thing to hear what you said. There was a friend who sat next to me in that biology class for 4 years. He was pretty normal and we got along well, his results were usually good and nothing was out of the ordinary. I only learnt at the end of the 3rd year he was autistic, which shows that autism is by no means debilitating and autistic people can still basically be normal people. However he actually disagrees about the lack of representation for autistic people. He feels that society shouldn’t bend over backwards to make autism more noticed as he thinks enough is done already)

Alexa play Despacito

 

I dont take flu vaccines ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

What why

 

Whenever we did get vaccines for the flu, we would always still catch it anyways. After skipping it for a year, we didn't get it. We haven't been taking them since and we've never gotten the flu. I don't want it to seem like we skip all vaccines, just flu ones rip

 

Ahh weird

 

I mean flu could be an exception since it's not nearly as lethal or damaging compared to other diseases such as measles or polio and it changes pretty rapidly. Though people should definitely get other vaccines.