In the News Judea And Samaria Debate Thread

it wasn't as easy to make explosives back then and the ottomans were just as cruel as the Israeli government

 

As the israeli government? That explains why the UN is biased

 

But compered to the PLO the Israeli government is as hostile as Switzerland in ww2

 

So neutral but still technically picked a side?

 

Yea, the PLO pays suicide bombers and refused to cooperate on any peace agreement so far

 

It isn't entirely a private initiative, the Israeli government is subsidising and encouraging it. They've built infrastructure in Zone C, granted building permits there, and given full citizenship to people living there. This is directly threatening a two-state solution and preventing Palestinian economic growth. Zones A and B would not be able to function as a state alone, as Zone C separates most parts of it and contains most agricultural, mineral and water resources. The settlements could hardly be integrated into Palestine, neither side would want that, but the way they're being woven through Palestinian land, it's becoming impossible to create a Palestinian state which doesn't contain them.

 

Areas A B and C were decided in the Oslo accords.
So far everything Israel has done was legal

 

'Legal' doesn't necessarily mean it should be happening. Slavery used to be legal, but that doesn't mean that it used to be okay. Israel should be using their influence in the region to help the Palestinians that dominate the area, not using the land to further their own interests at the expense of the locals.

 

Israel would love to get out of there but the second it will get out the PLO will fall and Hamas will take control (and Judea and Samaria are a tricky thing from a defensive point of view).

 

Why is this on a Minecraft server forums though

 

Cause we are more than just gamers

 

I am not exactly sure i understand what this is about. I read the posts, and this is the best i got out of it: (all Israel-related terms are likely incorrect)
There are zones A, B and C
A is under the control of the PLO (Palstinian liberation organization), and a palestinian only area.
B is A but but under the security of the IDF (Israel defence forces?)
C is under Israel’s control, both palestinians and Israeli can live there. The goverment is encouraging people to go settle there.


I’d like to talk about this and debate it, but i want to first know if i understood it.

 

Yea, that's how the areas work

 

I don't know what we're debating here, so I'll take a stab at this:

If you claim land by bible history, cultural sites, or even cities, then even Israel does not deserve the land of Canaan.

In the bible, Israel had an exodus from Egypt, and took the land from the Canaanites, razing their people, culture, and cities as they came. They did this because they had a thoecracy, and they claimed the land in their god's name. As Israel are no longer in that theocracy, they cannot claim the land that way.
Through cultural sites or cities, let's just look at jerusalem. It may be a holy site, but it is also a holy site for islam, with the jewish temple being demolished in 70AD, almost 2000 years ago.
By archaeological history, the Hebrews did not invade the land, but advanced faster than their neighbors in culture and development through their religion. Yet, they got conquered by the Ottoman empire.

In any case, after the first world war, Britain and France were the latest occupants of the Canaan territory. After the 2nd world war, I'm not too sure, but I'm pretty sure the british part was given back to the israelites, meaning that (idk who someone else) has sovreignty over the west back.

I probably made a few incorrect points here, please point them out and tell me the truth, This is what I learnt googling stuff for an hour or so.

 

Israel isn't a theocracy but it is a Jewish state by definition. In the scroll of independence it's defined as a Jewish Democratic state.

The last Jewish kingdom was conquered by Herod the great.
That story actually really fits in now as we just celebrated Hanukkah. The Roman leader of Judea wanted the Jews to assimilate so he forbid circumcision, study of Torah and decided the first night of a newly wed wife will be with a Roman general. The Jews started an uprising and took the kingdoms back. Then Herod back stabbed them and turned the whole area to Roman territory.

The main points are that Jews had the last sovereign state there.

In 1920 the Jews got an agreement that they could settle in the entire British mandated area.
But the Brits also had an agreement with some Arab militias (Lawrence of Arabia signed an agreement with the militias that if they help fight the ottomans they will get a state, but the militias never fought and after the war they wanted the land so the Brits split off 77% of the territory and made it trans Jordan and banned Jews from living there.

At 1947 the UN passed resolution 181 which included the partition plan.
The Jews get 55% of the new mandate, the Arabs get 45% and Jerusalem is an international city.
1948 the British leave the mandate, Israel fights the Arabs and conquer the area given to them by the British, then declare Independence and the following declare war and attack Israel: Egypt, trans Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, the holy war army, Arab Liberation army, volunteers from the Muslim brotherhood, Pakistan and Sudan.
They take control almost off the entire new mandate, Gaza is under Egypt rule, Judea and Samaria are occupied by trans Jordan which becomes just Jordan.
That territory stays until '67, at '67 a lot of Arab countries declare war and Israel whoops their ass taking control of The west bank (Jordan gave it that name), the Golan hights and the entire Sinai peninsula (including Gaza).
Sinai will be given back in the peace treaty with Egypt (they didn't want Gaza back).
In 2005 Israel completely redrew from Gaza which then became a base for the Hamas

 

This information is really interesting, but the history and current state of Israel is too much for me to wrap my head around in a short amount of time.
As I don't know enough to talk well about this topic, I will stop posting in this thread, and probably lurk here instead.

 

Oh the British, screwing up societies since their colonial days (kinda kidding)

 

I don't think the British can realistically be blamed for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (although we can be blamed for a lot of other conflicts) the cultural and religious divide existed well before the British arrived, and they mostly dealt with the issue to the best of their ability.

It's worth noting here that at this point the Arabs were a large majority in the area, so you can see why this may have been considered unfair.

I don't think it can really be called a base. It's controlled by Hamas, and a lot of the people there support them, but there are still a lot of civilians there. Calling it a base makes it seem like a military target.

 

According to Crash Course, Israel was multi-cultural and had little religious tension/violence until the British took over and created separate institutions. Even so, the British should have never promised two nations the same land; it’s just a recipe for disaster.

 

The Jews got most of the land that had Jewish towns or some of the uninhibited area in the south (which still barely holds people).

They use hospitals and schools to launch rockets and hide weapons it pretty much feels like a base