Mythic Balancing, What's Your Opinion?

Introduction
Hi guys! Been a while since I made a thread, but then again I didn't have any reason to. Now however, I'm interested in the community's thoughts about mythic balancing. In this thread I'm going to list every single mythic, and discuss what should be changed in my opinion. I will list all the mythics according to their element, and each one in a spoiler. Post your thoughts down below, or possible a poll if I can make one with multiple questions.

WARNING Dark theme recommended!

Earth mythics

Spoiler: Warchief

Ah, good old Warchief. Warchief is a glass canon item. It has very good melee/earth damage, reaching up to a total of 78% (!) melee damage boosts on earth weapons. In my opinion it's quite an underrated mythic! The problem with it is the negative defense. In the current tanking meta, negative defense or skillpoints is never good. However, people forget to look at the actual values. -80 in every element is easily fixable, and it can get you up to 78% damage!

In my opinion Warchief is fine. If anything should be buffed, probably either buff the defenses or the health. Maybe remove the negative dex?

Spoiler: Gaia

Gaia is supposed to be melee. That's the main problem with it, it's not melee enough. +3-11% melee damage is nothing, and -2-5% spell is even less. In my opinion, it should be buff/nerfed. Or changed as you could say. For gaia this should be buffing it's melee stats to a reasonable amount, while also making the negative spell substantial. In my opinion the melee should be changed to +6-26% and +60-260 raw. The spell should be changed to -11-20% and the raw spell is fine. Apart from that, Gaia seems like a pretty good mythic. It's spells are even a bit too overpowered, that's why we're nerfing it's spell damage. The negative spell damage is still low, but at least it's not -2%.

Spoiler: Grimtrap

Grimtrap. Good old meta Grimtrap. Grimtrap is broken, let's face it guys. I like to think of it as a faster attacking Alkatraz. First off, the life steal. Damn. +600/4s base life steal? That's pretty darn good. However, in my opinion this shouldn't be changed. The thing that should be nerfed is either it's damage or it's attack speed. Personally I'd go for the damage, I like the idea of a relatively fast attacking earth weapon with life steal. Here's what I think they should do: Remove one powder slot, so it's only [0/2]. This is an earth weapon, with negative mana steal. This is just SCREAMING it shouldn't use magic. Items with more magical power usually get more powder slots. Not only that, it's also just too powerful, that one extra slot. Now, for the base damage. I'm going with it's neutral damage. I think this should be nerfed, it's quite a lot. I'm saying instead of 320-370, 250-320. This would be an average of 285 damage, instead of 345. This doesn't seem like a lot, only a 60 damage difference. And it is, it is a small nerf! However, this combined with one less powder slot should somewhat weaken it. Once they balance powders and fix elemental defense this weapon should be fine.

Spoiler: Alkatraz

The elephant in the room, the beast himself, Alkatraz. No, I'm not talking about the prison, I'm talking about this soul-locking extremely overpowered but tiny hammer. You could actually call this a reliable Cataclysm, with how broken the current elemental defense is. Now, I'm gonna do something possibly unexpected. I'm not saying it shouldn't be nerfed, but the way I think it should be nerfed might surprise you.

In my opinion, Alkatraz' damage is fine, if it wasn't for +tier attack speed. And thus, I'm saying we add -20 base attack tiers. This would be a range of -14-26 attack tiers. That's the same as Taurus. This is for 2 reasons, 1. making it the super hard hitting heavy hammer Salted probably wanted, but also possibly making Taurus more meta. It'd fit perfectly, Alka is already super slow, who cares about the negative attack tier! This would also make Taurus builds a bit more diverse than just... Stinger. And my casual Eidolon Taurus mage lol However, it's still possible to get that attack speed up. It won't be nearly as rewarding though, because you'll need a perfect attack speed Alkatraz and a perfect Cancer and then still have -1 attack tier to work with, causing extremely glass builds to emerge, which won't be wrecking bosses as easy.

Spoiler: Grandmother

The 5th weel of the earth mythics, the only one that should have a serious buff in my opinion. Gma. Now the thing is, gma does good damage. It's almost as good as Grimtrap, just less spamable, because Arrow Bomb takes more mana than Spin Attack. The difference is, that Grimtrap has good survivability. Gma is literally killing you by holding it. That's why in my opinion Gma's damage should be buffed. I suggest we add 150 earth damage to both the minimum and the max earth damage. That might sound like a lot, but Gma needs some serious buffs. I'm not actually calculating, haven't got much time for that, tell me in the comments what you think about this. This should give Gma the extra damage it desperately needs, so that it's not just a suicide weapon with good damage, now it's a suicide weapon with great damage!

Quick note, if the elemental defense fix ever comes, this buff might not be needed as the 1.5x spell multiplier will probably make it good again.

Thunder mythics

Spoiler: Fatal, Thrundacrack, Az

Let's just get this poor guy out of the way first. Fatal is shit at the moment. It's damage might be good on paper and against neutral mobs, but as soon as you try hitting anyone with a decent PvP build (or try hitting qira without courage/curse lol) you'll see your damage is getting tanked very easily. This is because of that damn elemental defense problem, where attack speed is calculated AFTER elemental defense. This allows slower attacking weapons to pierce defense much easier, while higher attacking weapons have more problems (except mr imsecretlyanearthweaponwithunreliabledamage). Fatal is one of the weapons suffering most from this, because of mage's low base damage. Warp might have even more problems with this, with never being able to hit those sweet 500 base dmg + dex hits.

In my opinion, Fatal shouldn't be touched until elemental defense fix. However, after that, NERF THIS DAMN THING will be the topic of the day. That damage is gonna be insane, you can have my word for that.

EDIT: I added Thrundacrack and Az to this spoiler, since they're suffering the exact same problem.

Spoiler: Cataclysm

The hated weapon which beats you down, and beats you down, and never lets up... Yeah. Big bad Guzma Cataclysm is here. All jokes and references aside, Cataclysm is a beast. Cataclysm is that one asian kid everyone always talks about, you know? "Roses are red, violets are blue, if you think you're good at something, there's always an asian better than you."

Ok for real though, Cataclysm is powerful. Really powerful. It's kind of like mr Trump. Elemental defense: "yeah thunder defense is gonna make you bad mr Cata"
Cata: "WRONG."

Nerf the damage please. It doesn't have to be a lot, just a little bit. However, when elemental defense gets fixed it's gonna literally rip the PvP world apart, even more so than Fatal.

Spoiler: Slayer

Now, slayer is an interesting item. It's a thunder/air hybrid item, but mostly thunder, and yet it's most important stat is the walk speed. In my opinion, plain and simple, buff it's ws from 30 to 40 base, meaning from +9-39% to +12-52%. This should give it a considerable amount of ws. However, I think if that's gonna happen it's negative regen should be nerfed too. So, the regen should go from -70 base to -150 base. Would be interesting to see how people play around this.

Water mythics

Spoiler: Pure

I honestly don't know what to say other than B U F F P U R E.

Spoiler: Idol, Nirvana

Idol and Nirvana are quite similar in playstyle, with Idol being a bit more defensive. Then again it's assassin and warrior weapons, offense and defense characters, so I shouldn't be complaining.

Tbh these are both pretty balanced, especially Nirvana. When elemental defense gets fixed Idol should be in a better spot.

Spoiler: Lament

Lament is an interesting mythic. It has slow attack speed, which is unusual for a water weapon (normal attack speed for the normies amirite). Lament uses lots of mana steal. Now recently I saw someone say that's to counter the negative mana steal from Suppression, which I found interesting, because I don't think they're making mythics that specific. Lament got the lower attack speed to be able to hit better melees and also getting more reliable mana steals. It also has negative life steal, which means its a life for mana kind of trade, but instead of regen they're going steal. Now the main problem is that meteor supposedly triggers stealing effects with the second meteor hit, 100% of the time. I haven't tested it myself, but if that's true that's the thing that should be fixed. Except for that Lament is a pretty balanced mythic, but the damage might be a bit too high for a spell spam mythic. If anything, it's damage should be nerfed slightly.

Spoiler: Spring

Now Spring, Spring is an interesting element combo. It's a water-earth combo, but instead of the usual earth damage, Spring goes mostly water and has a HUGE water damage boost. Which means it wants pure water damage, but with the strength of earth, which you can see back in it's actual damage values. It also has the strong regens that earth/water combo's usually have, with +1-4/4s mana regen and +45-195 raw regen (I think).

In my opinion Spring should get a new id, a negative one. It's damage is too high to not have a debuff to counter it. I mean look at @Net_Twerk 's awesome spring build, that thing is pretty damn overpowered. Looking at other earth/water items, the main problem with earth/water is low health. And thus, I'm requesting a health nerf. I'm saying -500 hp average/base, which is a range of -350-650 hp (I think). Nothing too major, but just a small debuff to make it seem less flawless.

Spoiler: Galleon

Galleon, another underrated mythic boots. In my opinion Galleon is fine as it is, with huge health, a literally insane water defense bonus (+450!) and a bit of earth defense, for the price of considerable negative thunder defense, and possible -1 attack tier if you get a bad roll. However, it also gives you a great melee damage boost, and up to +3/4s mana steal which is quite powerful. I actually used this in a melee Lameme build, which was pretty fun.

Fire mythics

Spoiler: Guardian, Ignis

Now Guardian and Ignis are very similar. That's why I put them together. In my opinion they're buff pretty balanced, it's just that Ignis is a tanking weapon made for a class that generally doesn't tank. In my opinion that's the fun of mythics, having such a different playstyle. If you don't like it, you don't have to use Ignis you know! You can always use good ol' Gay's Force. For Guardian, in my opinion it's balanced. It's a great tanking mythic, very good in the current meta, but if elemental defense get's fixed, Guardian will be less meta. In my opinion it'll still be a great tanking weapon, +4680 hp bonus/+910 hp regen is a force to be reckoned with!

Spoiler: Monster

Another underrated mythic. Monster actually received a buff/nerf, getting much better melee/fire/exploding/health buffs, but also getting a considerably bigger intel debuff. In my opinion Monster is a great example of those interesting playstyles some of the mythics provide, being a melee tanking weapon, for a mage! Imo this thing is balanced.

Spoiler: Inferno

In terms of popularity and playstyle this weapon is somewhat like Monster, however the main problem with this is that it's damage based but deals shit damage. In my opinion both it's health and the damage should be buffed, especially the damage should take quite the buff. After all this weapon is level 97, pretty high level.

Spoiler: Crusade Sabatons

This item get's overshadowed by Gaea-Hewn. That's about it, that's the whole reason it's underpowered imo, Gaea-Hewn is simply better. If you're really not looking to use 40 int, you could use this, but otherwise Gaea-Hewn is just better. Imo Gaea-Hewn should be nerfed rather than Crusade Sabatons being buffed. Maybe buff the % health regen, so it becomes a bit more substantial?

Spoiler: Apocalypse

Right, Aboosalypse. Now, the main problem is/was the exploding life steal glitch. I'm not sure if this is fixed, but if it's not, it will be, eventually. Same for elem def. Apoc itself isn't overpowered in my opinion, not at all, might even have to buff it's damage after the elem def fix. It's just that it profits a lot from glitches, haha.

Air mythics

Spoiler: Boreal

Let's get this out of the way first. So, air boots with regen ids. Some people might be confused, especially because of @Glitchedslayer saying in his video something along the lines of "fire boots with negative fire damage/defense". Now, the thing is that air is also a defensive skill. It just works differently. They both use regen, although regen is slightly more common on fire weapons. Let's look at Pure, Archangel and Hero. They all have % regen. Boreal has this too.

Imo, Boreal is pretty good. Yes, you heard it right. It has good % health regen, with some mana regen on top, making it top-tier regen boots. Imo the walk speed should be buffed to base of 20% instead of 10%, so it actually benefits a bit from that. 10% is too weak in my opinion.

Spoiler: Archangel

Now, Archangel. Archangel is balanced. It's a lower level mythic, so please don't judge it as if it's supposed to be endgame guys! For it's level, it looks fine to me. When I finally get off my lazy ass and level my assassin I'll actually try it out.

Archangel seems like a weapon form of Boreal to me. Having regen and walk speed is a good combo, and it's also got good enough damage for an air weapon.

Spoiler: Hero

Slowly but surely building up to the more high level mythics. Hero is a good mythic, but it's damage is too low. The main thing with it is that it's supposed to be melee, which is not gonna work with a fast attacking weapon. I mean you could use a puppeteer + centipede, but that's about it for melee. And even then the damage isn't good enough. In my opinion a simple damage buff should be good enough, but I don't have a clue how much it should be. It's kind of like McCree with overwatch, if you buff him too much he instantly rules the game.

Spoiler: Weathered

Now, Weathered is quite a boring mythic to me. It's a simple air mythic with walk speed, reflection and high attack speeds, but that's it. That's all there is to it. That's fine though, and the weapon itself is fine too.

If anything should be changed it should be completely reworked to be a bit more like the newer mythics, so with a more interesting playstyle.

Spoiler: Stratiformis

Right. Mr imfastafbutimalsosecretlycataclysm aka Strati. Friggin. Formis. This thing is a beast. It has insane walk speed which is even more insane because of the speed III, with that making it faster than my favorite mythic of all time ;-;. That's not why I'm saying it should be nerfed, nope. I say it should be nerfed because it's damage is too good. I don't think making the -health harsher would be the right way to go, we don't want a speedy cata, do we. In my opinion simply nerfing the damage by quite a bit should make it more of an air weapon and less of a imfastafbutimalsosecretlycataclysm-like weapon.

Spoiler: Warp

Hey there's my Warpu. You guys probably expect this, but imo Warp is balanced. It'll need a slight damage nerf when/if elemental defense gets nerfed, but right now it's broken and thus Warp is fine, maybe slightly underpowered in PvP.

If anything should be changed I think the useless agility damage should be buffed right now.

That one poor rainbow mythic

Spoiler: Freedom

I think rainbow is a bit boring, but Freedom still managed to interest me. That's because it's not just a plain old imawaterweaponthatdealsdmginallelementslol, it's actually r a i n b o w. It has all the different aspects and deals different damage values depending on the element. Freedom is one of those weapons I need to try myself before saying anything about it, because just from the stats I can't tell how good it is. All I've heard is God in PvE Shit in PvP. If that's the case, it's a powerful weapon, PvP sucks anyway.

Conclusion
So, what do you guys think of this? I'd love to hear your opinion on mythic balancing, I'm really interested in what other people think. If I've missed any mythics or broke the spoilers too much, please tell me.

I create a thread to ask for other people's opinion and yet it's mostly about my opinion, nice.

Thanks for reading, ~Air Cat out.​

 

Az is fine, they need to add a thunder mythic bow since all other three class has fulfiled their elemental mythics for endgame. .-.

 

You forgot pure but it shouldn't be buffed cuz #purebestmythic

Also archer's base defense should be buffed to make ignis good.

Also buff grandma

________________________________

Besides warrior so add air spear

 

Spent too long trying to find out why I was tagged.

Ill keep this simple. Boreal is not worth it. Because of conflicting IDs, you will have to get lucky to have a useable Boreal (like cata) and you need to use it for some bizzare build that isn't even meta. Not to mention that most mythic armors have which is that nearly all of them can be replaced with a legend that is just as good.

 

Alright, may as well put my opinions in here because why not.

Warchief: I can agree with this.
Gaia: This doesn't go far enough IMO, Gaia needs a lot of negative spell and positive melee to make it a melee wand since melee Mage is absolute garbage due to lower base damage stats. So yea, I agree it needs more negative spell and higher melee bonuses but that amount doesn't go far enough as the spell is still easy to counter.
Grimtrap: Sure why not, I don't have many opinions on grim other than it needs a nerf, this change would be fine.
Alkatraz: As already stated Alkatraz itself is fairly balanced, the only things that make it op are the elemental defense system sucking and tier stacking but besides that it's fine.
Grandmother: Is already pretty good but it just doesn't compare to other mythic bows, a damage buff is fine. Negative regen could do with a slight reduction.

Fatal: Fix. Elemental. Defense. Besides that the wand could do with a few drawbacks since right now if you ignore elemental defense it's only downside is that it's random.
Thrubdacrack: It honestly needs a nerf, once elemental defense is fixed this item will be insanely strong with next to no drawbacks.
Az: Az is fine, nothing else I need to say.
Cataclysm: Nerf the damage a bit yea.
Slayer: Honestly is the "best" of the mythic boots in my opinion but all the mythic boots need a buff so yea.

Idol: Overall pretty good except that it has soul point regen? What, why, would be fine with a slight buff.
Nirvana: Overall balanced IMO, nothing much else to say.
Lament: I mean it's fine, doesn't really need any rebalancing.
Spring: Can agree that it needs a negative stat or something, besides that it's pretty okay.
Galleon: I'm not even going to say anything about these.

Guardian/Ignis: Balanced as far as I'm concerned, fix defense system pls.
Monster: No, just no, making monster a forced melee wand would make it even more underused than it is now. Gaia does more damage and is just better for melee, especially if it gets changed. Monster is honestly fine as it is, perhaps a slight damage buff but besides that it's fine.
Inferno: .... What the hell even is this weapon..... Buff the damage, make its positives more prevalent, lessen the negatives slightly. It's honestly baring unusable right now, flameshot is just better for melee and black for spell, inferno is just bad and outdone by both of these.
Apocalypse: Once glitches are fixed it's fine.
Crusade Sabatons: two word name when rest of mythics are one word why. Honestly, needs a buff to make it better for its purpose.

Boreal: why, what even is this... I can't even... Why is this an item.
Archangel: Perfectly fine, great for its level and even a bit above.
Hero: Slight damage buff, PLEASE MAKE THE WALKSPEED HIGHER AHHHHH
Weathered: Good mythic, just boring.
Stratiformis: Nerf damage and it's fine.
Warp: Needs a bit of a damage nerf, besides that it's fine, useless agi why tho.

Freedom: Overall great, just kinda dead due to elemental defense. Could do with a slight damage buff to make it better than rainbow hive bow.
Pure: ... I can't even, this thing is beaten by so many wands that are barely higher level than it is.

Few other things with mythics could need a change but this is just my two cents on things relating to the thread a bit.

 

Guardian - 210 to 910 health regen for a class that has 120% defense

Ignis - 105 do 455 health regen for a class that has 60% defense


.....

 

So here's my two cents:

Way too powerful:

• Stratiformis
• Grimtrap
• Cataclysm

Too powerful:

• Spring
• Thrundacrack
• Gaia

​

Let's get the first three out of the way first.

Stratiformis: I can see where Salted was going when he made this Bow, every sanic Archer's wet dream. However I don't know if he was high on weed or something when he made Stratiformis have the damage output of a semi-automatic machine gun. Its negative HP can barely be called a 'drawback', not to mention potentially reaching 140 Agi just by holding this thing. Walk Speed is fine, that's its gimmick. The damage however, is like strapping a desert eagle to a peregrine falcon, aka not okay. Stratiformis is the embodiment of getting the best of one thing then saying 'this isn't good enough'. Nerf the damage by ~35% and you will have a perfectly fair and balanced Air Bow. Hell, even halving the damage won't be too unreasonable.​

Grimtrap: I can see where Salted was going when he made this Dagger, every cactus Assassin's wet dream. However I don't know if he was high on cocaine or something when he made Grimtrap have the damage output of a Panzergranate 39 Caliber anti-armor tank missile. Abuses aside, Grimtrap has literally everything you need to dive head-first into a flock of Bobs and right-left-righting your way out of that mess. You know what? I just thought of the best analogy to describe Grimtrap: take a pot of cactus fertilized by pure gunpowder, encase it in a tungsten shell, shove the shell inside another cactus, grow said cactus in a power plant running on photosynthesis of cacti, shove the cactus inside a wrecking ball then smearing it with naplam made from the oils of cactus in the Sahara desert, except each grain of sand is actually a grain of gunpowder and each atom in each grain of gunpowder is actually a cactus. This is as close to Grimtrap as I can describe. Grimtrap should be thrown in the same boat as Grandmother. Grimtrap is much more deserving of having negative Health Regen than Grandmother. Give Grimtrap -800 raw Health Regen, reduce its damage by 30% and it should be all good.

Cataclysm: I can see where Salted was going when he made this Dagger, every rich Assassin's wet dream. I can actually understand why he made Cataclysm have the damage output of the child of Stratiformis and Grimtrap but injected with a syringe of steroids on steroids while on steroids. Damage is its gimmick, yes. The only thing stopping it from getting base (∏:(999,x→1),x^x) - (∏:(999,x→1),(x^x)^x) damage is the fact that it should still 'try' in boss fights. Let's face it, -3500 health is actually dismal compared to the amount of ways Cataclysm can shit on your insignificant life. You can't call negative Health a gimmick in a world where defenses are a thing. Don't argue about Elemental Tank Cataclysm variants only being strong because of coding oversights, because once Elemental Defense's formula is fixed, the title known as 'one-punch man' may well become 'one-tap man'. As for what can make Cataclysm more balanced, I'm not going to suggest nerfing its damage, since that would take away the whole gimmick. Instead, I propose that the 'drawback' be changed from negative Health to negative Life Steal. Sure, super-fast weapons are less likely to trigger life steal, but it is still a useful deterrent for those who think they can just spin their Cataclysm like a ballerina to kill bosses. Say... -5000/3s base should do the trick.
​

May talk some more later...

 

- Only regens out of combat anyways

- Archer is ranged so getting out is easier

- Archer is ranged, Warrior is not

^^
The balancing idea behind it (I guess)

 

Yeah, I totally understand that. Idea is great, however, practical use of those classes show us that execution isn't the best...or even near it. Even when I had ignis build with 120+ defense I'd still get 2 shot using archer, while warrior is able to drink lemonade in a fight, and not just because of the warrior scream bug.
But, archer already got penalized for it's ranged attack with 60% base defense, no need to penalize it further. Aaaand 2/4 of his skills are short range ones, which is just asking for trouble.

 

Why don't we just remove all mythics? I mean I wasn't around when mythics first came out but I can imagine a world with only legendaries and see it be beautiful.

 

Yes
And

@motoki1

 

The thing with monster is that it isn't pure damage like Gaia. Monster also has a defense & health buff, and works better with courage (because of fire damage). Don't forget the 33% exploding, could come in handy.

-----------------------------------------

Added the meme lord itself.

 

Noooooooo.....

 

I don't agree on Boreal.

There are many air boots that are way better. 30 Raw Health regen doesn't make it worth the -400 Fire Defense. It also has no damage boosts, very little ws, and 2/4 mana isn't really a game changer.

Take Wind Mimic for example. It has damage, agility, more ws, less fucky defenses... Boreal just sucks.

 

Where is apoc...

 

Oops. Sorry, adding it in a sec.

 

Dang this is going to be an essay of rage I think..

 

How so?

Added Aboosalypse.

 

@YYGAMER