Media Rule #19 Discussion

id

 

ok but question, you said if its not what the seller says it is and no refund is given the SELLER gets banned. what if i sold a 96-100 wand as fatal and the person who got it got warp, would they be held accountable to pay the extra price because its warp, or have to sell it back to the seller for their money they paid initially? and if they refused and basicly made a profit of 25 stacks or something, would THEY get banned for scamming? if they wouldnt i would imagine that EVERY 96-100 wand will be sold as warp, making it so people who want unidd fatal would never get one.

 

Well if you know it has to be a Nethers scar, just say so lol.

 

These are hard to see

 

well too late I sold all my clean mythic long time ago

 

Alright, we changed up rule 19 to be a tad different and be a little more clear.

Could you give us feedback on if it makes sense?

 

That works great pretz, I really think that was the rules intention!

 

More than half of all the mythics we have currently can be identified using a chart, with only a select few being trouble.

 

And? I'm still waiting for you to explain why banning unIDed mythics is a bad idea. It's pretty obvious you had no argument to begin with since you
avoided my question like a bullet. You had a couple of days to think about your answer, are you gonna provide an answer now? Do I have to
remind you what your solution to this situation was?

 

Do you really think I think about this all the time? Like I'm obsessed with rule 19? Like I love it to death? I'm not.

The current rule "Selling unidentified Mythics is not allowed. Legendary and below is fine. If the item turns out to be a different item than is advertised a refund must be given, as it would be considered scamming, see game rule #8" works for now. The reason why Legendary and below is fine is less emerald risk. Some Mythics, such as Az, Pure, Archangel, Apocalypse, Discoverer, Warchief, and perhaps some others can be identified easily without having to look at emerald ID costs or having the seller say the ID cost by looking at the items level range. (These examples can change due to additions of new Mythics around the level range of existing Mythics.)

Spoiler: Pic for ref

The emerald ID method works for nearly all but a select few of current items. For the seller, it works really well with the exception of Inferno, Nirvana, Grimtrap, Cataclysm, Weathered, Grandmother, Ignis, Fatal*, and Warp* (*= can be identified through the process of elimination due to the fact that sticks can stack).

But for buyers, they do not know what the emerald cost is without the seller telling them. If the seller provides the emerald cost, the buyer now knows the amount of emeralds and thus uses the hopefully correct table above to know what the item is. If either the seller or buyer is dishonest about the emerald ID cost and takes advantage of level ranges, they could switch unidentified Mythics around in order to scam. In my opinion, the ID Cost method is just as dangerous as it is useful.

I could say to add exceptions for items of certain level ranges such as Az, Pure, etc... but it would only add to the complexity of the rule and it would be affected if more Mythics are added due to items being dynamic. Who knows when Salted will drop new Mythics?

I have other ideas that might fix everything and could be the one of the final solutions to this mess, but it would have to wait until the code is refactored because they would be improbable to implement now. I will not say them in this thread or any other thread except my own, as this isn't the time nor the place for this.

 

Don't make this absurd. I never said that nor I insinuated that's how you feel about it. You went ahead and claimed banning unIDed mythics is dumb, bad idea. That idea happened to be mine. I am not salty or butthurt about you calling it dumb, or even thinking it's dumb. If it's dumb, it's dumb, but I need an argument why is it so. You can't just go claiming stuff without providing a proper argument. I happen to care about my stance on things. If I am wrong, I need to know about it so I can change it. You, however, shouldn't go claiming things unless you have a good reason for it, and it just happens that you don't.

All that writing for nothing. I know how things work, no idea why you went ahead and explained them to me. And you still didn't explain why
is banning unIDed mythics bad. If anything, you just proved my point how banning unIDed mythics makes things severely easier and protects the buyer.
Because it's only dangerous with a few items? "Coincidentally", exactly those few were the reason people could got scammed. "Coincidentally", both people who were selling unIDed mythics happened to have a wand that could either be fatal or warp. No other clean mythics, just those 2. What are the odds, eh? Whether said mythics are in majority or minority, is irrelevant, the window for scamming was huge and should have been dealt with.

The issue now arises, that in the future, I will have problems with your posts. How am I supposed to know when you are telling the truth or
when you are right? Am I supposed to take everything you say as false, ignore it and move on?
I don't dislike you, but you shouldn't write things that are not supported by an argument/fact, because exactly this happens, you lose credibility in what you say.
The same thing happened in other thread, when you said getting rid of stacks of LE doesn't help the economy, until someone called you out,
and then you changed the statement to "it helps a little". Those 2 things are extremely different.

Now you will probably quote me say you don't care what I think about you. Fair enough, nor you shouldn't, but if I called you out, someone else
will too, and eventually, no one will take you seriously. If that's what you wish, so be it. Whether you continue to write unsupported things or
no is irrelevant to me, I'm merely giving you a suggestion were you could improve.

 

"Do you really think I think about this all the time? Like I'm obsessed with rule 19? Like I love it to death? I'm not." this was a response to "You had a couple of days to think about your answer, are you gonna provide an answer now?" as a took it as a sign that you were really annoyed at my lack of response on my own opinion. You could have simply decide to shrug it off, but you decided not to. My opinion is my opinion, and your opinion is your option. (100% Offtopic: I have no clue when you're online due to your privacy settings.)

That was my opinion on how the rule change was a working idea for now with reasons behind it. If you want to take it as proving your point, you are free to do so.

The stacks of LE thing is, in my opinion, unrelated to this thread. It helps a little, but not enough to bring Mythic prices down by stacks and stacks. <-- This is my opinion. (I do not remember the exact thread that was on, sorry. I do not want to talk about it on this thread anymore.)

"How am I supposed to know when you are telling the truth or when you are right?"
You should decide for yourself if what I'm saying is true , false, right, or wrong. I could be telling the truth, telling lies, or somewhere in between. That would be your opinion.

"Am I supposed to take everything you say as false, ignore it and move on?"
Same thing could be said for: "Am I supposed to take everything you say true, accept it and move on?" (In my opinion.)
That's all up to you on how you choose to receive and interpret information.

I do not care what you think about me. That, in my opinion, is true.

Now, let's put that all aside and give you something er.. some form of an answer you might desire... in my opinion.... maybe this would explain why I called it "dumb". I'm sorry that I called it a bad suggestion, but that was my opinion at the time. I have since removed the word "bad" from one of the posts.
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Let's say we have a fictional hospital in a fictional town. It is the only hospital nearby.

This fictional hospital is not bound by any rules and can allow or deny treatment to people for any number of reasons, but wants to save the lives of people who need saving.
We do not know how the staff act. A rogue doctor or nurse could be among them.

This hospital has a station with a guard that decides who can enter and who cannot.
The guard received a call a few hours earlier from his boss saying there is an increased risk of terrorism today due several violent and some deadly protests... and to use caution.

Suddenly, three people who need medical assistance who show up in front of the guard that want to be let in to receive treatment. None of them look like a threat, but he cannot be so sure. Who knows when another will show up to the party?

The guard cannot leave the station to inspect the three people for weapons/bombs/etc.
The guard cannot make new technology instantly appear to narrow down the choices.
The guard can make suggestions to his boss sometime in the future, but he cannot do it now and the chances of his ideas getting approved are slim.
The guard can only look and listen to the people and decide who can and cannot come in.

The guard does not know that one person has a grudge against the hospital, but needs treatment anyway. This person might have a bomb and might detonate it inside of the hospital for any number of reasons, but might not. This person might be willing to forgive the hospital and give up a possible bomb, if it exists.

The people who get turned away might die and no bomb will go off inside the hospital. They might be able to get treatment from somewhere else, but it isn't guaranteed.
The people who get in will be saved, but it could put the hospital and the people inside at risk.
The guard cannot control the other staff or radio them for a plan. The guard is all on his own.... and the guard wants everyone to live despite what others might think.

Let's say you play the guard. What should you do?

Should you:
A) Deny all three people from receiving treatment, thus potentially killing them and keeping the hospital safe. They might live to do great things, but who knows? New options might become available in the distant future to save everyone and keep everyone safe if something like this happens again, but you do not know for sure.

B) Let all three people in and risk the hospital, staff, and the lives of the other patients. If nothing bad happens, you will feel happy that you saved them. They might thank you later. If something bad does happen...

C) Take a chance and pick one or two people at random, and ignore the remaining. Test your luck even more.

Hopefully with this you can understand what I am trying to say...... to get the answer you desire.....

 

Your metaphor is noted. I can't agree with it as I find 2 situations, even metaphorically, very different, tho now I get what your point was in the
1st place. While I agree 1 rotten apple doesn't define the whole crate, or even 2, those apples are the reason rules were set. I'd also agree
it would be cool to buy unIDed mythics, and seeing how luck works for you, but unfortunately, game has many bugs, and some create
huge potential for scamming. I wish no one to be scammed, and potentially quit the game because of something similar. Until it gets fixed, imo,
this is the best/easiest solution, as it's clear and simple, if nothing else.

 

Really? I don't really think that it's fair to compare life-or-death medical situations to selling unidentified mythics. I fail to see any reason why anyone needs to sell unidentified mythics. It's much fairer and more transparent for everyone if the seller IDs it once, and then sells it. It's not as if the ~8-16 EB is an issue for someone who sells mythics. This way, everyone knows exactly what they're getting. Please explain how anything bad can come out of not being able to sell unidentified items. This is a very manipulative analogy. It's actually a lot more like preventing people from bringing certain things on planes. Sure, it could cause well-meaning people a bit of inconvenience, but the benefits in safety make it worth it.

 

I wanted to set up a gambling company based on the different un-ID items tho

 

The thing about mythics is that they sell for several stacks of LE and some mythics ate significantly more expensive than others.

If you buy an unidentified mythic for the price of something you were expecting but get a different mythic that's cheaper it's gonna suck quite a bit.

Legendary items and below aren't differentiated by stacks of LE so we decided those are fine.

Either way our intention was to make sure that the buyer doesn't end up in an unfavorable position or the seller potentially scamming the buyer if they know what the item truly is.

 

can you answer my question from before though?

 

That would ruin some people's business, honestly selling unid is so much easier than selling ID'd.

What if the seller just wants to make a gamble-like shop, where you don't even check what item it is using identification costs and just list all the possibilities and price it somewhere between the two or three possibilities. Is that allowed?

 

What was your question from before? I forget.

If the buyer understands that it is a gamble and the seller does not intentionally sell if for more than what it might be worth, aka if it's an auction, then I would be fine with it.

If the seller is trying to sell items and claim them to be a set price that is above what they're actually worth then there's going to be a problem.

In the end as long as the buyer feels like they have not been scammed out of their money and the seller is selling the items fairly then we are good.

 

Alright. Guess I'll just stick with using id costs to determine what the item is and pricing accordingly.