SPOILER Why Choices In Quests Are Done Wrong, And How To Improve Them.

I might get a lot of flak for this, but I'm posting this thread anyway because changing how the mechanic in question is used can make quests much better, in my opinion. Also, I haven't done all the new/reworked quests, so if there's any quest that uses the multiple choice mechanic well (Recipe for Disaster, from what I can tell), then this "rant" doesn't apply to it.

Since Gavel, Wynncraft has had a multitude of multiple-ending quests. These can make the player stop for a few minutes and reflect upon the decision they are about to make, immersing them even more in the game's elaborate world. But as of now, most players either choose the "right" decision because they know that that's what the game wants them to do, or they go on the wiki and see what is the best choice. This results in wasting the potential of multiple-ending quests, turning them into more of a quiz than anything. This mechanic has so much potential, such as true moral decisions or dilemmas with no "right" answer. But it is rarely, if ever, being used correctly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the choices shouldn't be good choice or bad choice, selfless choice or greedy choice, or anything along these lines. This is even more of a problem in quests which give you barely any information on the choices that you make, forcing you to either go with your gut (which nullifies the purpose of a choice) or, as mentioned before, look up the quest on the wiki and choose the "correct" answer.

Let's take a look at some examples:
Underice:
Here, you have to choose between giving an ever-lasting fish to an old man at the lake or to a suffering species which are being abused by the humans/villagers. This seems like a proper moral decision, right? Well, it turns out that there is in fact a "correct" answer (which is to give it to the old man). This is, in my opinion, the worst offender of this mistake as there is almost no information given to you about the underice citizens. The only vague hint I could get from the dialogue is a few of Calamaro's lines, but here's what I thought of them:

• Calamaro: Who are you? You don't look like one of those villagers we stole the fi... Oh, he seems a bit shady... Wait, they didn't send you to retrieve "their" fish did they?
• Calamaro: For years we let them share the lake with us, the actual inhabitants of it, we were modest and took what we needed, we let them catch the rest. But then they went too far, they caught too much. Ok...
• Calamaro: We didn't have enough to eat, we were forced to steal their fish, we would have starved otherwise. Oh, ok, so I guess these guys aren't bad after all, since they have a valid reason to steal the fish. And now they want their fish, our fish back? We can't do that, I hope you understand.
• Calamaro: However, we don't have to fight over the fish in the lake, we just <-- "Just" is the vague hint I was talking about. need a [Mythic Everlasting Pufferfish], that would be enough, nothing else. We never wanted to steal the fish.
• Calamaro: If you want to help us and the villagers, just follow the stream that flows into this lake to the south, you will find the best fishing ground there. The pufferfish should be around there too.

Ok, they seem like good guys to me!

Maybe I missed some very obvious clues in the scenery or something, but many players don't look around for clues in places where they aren't forced to look around. If there are clues hidden in the scenery, I'm either blind or they are hidden a bit too much for an average player to find.
Anyway, if you choose to help out the underice village, it turns out that they had hot soup and weren't starving at all. I'm fine with NPCs lying, but if you have to base an important decision upon one of them without any hint of them being not trustworthy, then the game is just misguiding you. Before anyone mentions that in the previous version of Underice the squids were already shown to be liars, keep in mind that new players don't know that.

How to fix Underice? Simple! Either give more clues as to Calamaro being a liar/untrustworthy, or, even better, make the underice village actually be starving to death so that your choice is actually important.

Aldorei Valley:
Ok, this one isn't as bad. You are supposed to choose between greed and selflessness. This is obviously a "right vs wrong" choice, which is my main problem with this quest. Unlike Underice, you do know what you are doing and you're making an actual decision. The game really does strongly push you towards the selfless route, even as far as saying that you failed if you chose the "wrong" (greedy) route. You also get more emeralds for choosing the "correct" path. There isn't much more explaining to do here.

How to fix Aldorei Valley I & II? My suggestion is to not guide the player so much towards the selfless route and make them actually choose for themselves instead of being pressured by the game. I know that the point of this quest is to show off that greed doesn't pay off, especially in Aldorei, but I think that you shouldn't be rewarded with more money, the cause of greed, for choosing the selfless route. If you got a lot less emeralds than now but also a bunch of powders and maybe a better wisdom potion for choosing the selfless path and made the greedy path only pay off in raw emeralds, the player's decision would be much more interesting. Kansard should tell the player that giving the boots to him can result in good "karma" (or whatever) for the player, as to hint that there is a difference in kind between the two end results.

That's pretty much it for what I have to say about the quests. There's more examples but the thread is getting pretty long already and I think I've made my point clear enough. The last thing I feel that I need to state is that I'm not saying that the quests mentioned above are bad or that the CT isn't doing a good job with them. They are certainly much better than the old quests (and as a veteran, I have seen both the builds of the Builders and the creativity of GMs improve over the past 3+ years). I made this thread to help improve the Wynncraft experience and give some feedback, not to hate on the quests (even if it might seem like I just made a semi-angry rant. That's just my tone during schooldays lol).

Anyway, what are your thoughts on this? Do you agree? Do you hate me more than you hate stubbing your toe? I'm eager to see what you guys think :)

 

Another problem with multiple ending quests is that they give different items depending on the ending. Even if you want a specific ending because you think it's the right choice, you might feel like you should select the other because it gives a much better item. An Iron Heart is the best example of this, the Greaves of Honor's XP boost makes them far better than the Greaves of Shame, so even if you think it would be better to choose the Greaves of Shame ending, you're just wasting a good item by doing it.

 

Shouldn't this be in general suggestions?

 

Actually I feel like the Greaves of Shame and Honor are balanced, as the Shame greaves give good loot bonus without accosting as much health

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I kinda think that they just made the soup with the fish. it wouldn't be the first time someone did something implausably fast in wynn

 

I hate these quests and i 100% agree with you. The player and 100% of everyone is going to choose the endings with the best rewards, whether that be right or wrong, the human mind is very opportunistic, and greedy when it comes to it. It will take the better and more useful reward and view that rewards more favorably. I mean its common sense. Would you take 5€ or 20€? Of course, anyone would take the latter option, because it has more money in it.

My Solution? Well my solution is simple. Im pretty sure we all can agree fetch quests are bad. And i understand that we have a severely outdated quest system. But when we get a better Quest system? Please, i beg of you. Hear me out.

Make quests with different endings, but with the same reward. Make the player have to make decisions. I believe that the player should be able to lead the quest, not the NPC.

For those of you who do not understand, For example:

[1/1]Tommy: Oh my, Oh no, Not again. Help us good adventurer, we need help! We have a rockslide on our way down the mountain, but we dont know how to stop it! Theres that old scientist down by the river, or you could just go in there, and try and straighten everything out! But its your choice! Please help us...

Make the player make decisions about what they are going to do, and how they are going to do it. For example with the "quest" above. The player will have to decide whether to talk to the scientist, or go up there on your own. The 2 "paths" or how we are going to call it will be the same difficulty, so the player cant be like "Fuck it, im just going to go for the easiest one. It would make the quest and the game a whole lot harder and fun for the player.

Just imagine a quest with lets say 5-10 of these breakaways, with the same rewards, but different ways to end the quest. That would be amazing, but its not possible with the fetch quest system we have in place.

 

I agree

 

well that's not really fair;

nobody could ever say that and really mean it

 

Jera kinda over shadows greaves of shame though

 

This is more of a rant/feedback thing and isn't though out enough to belong in the general suggestions section, but I guess if a mod thinks it's better in there then idrc if it's moved.

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Hmm, if that's true then that changes the whole quest for me. I guess it depends on the person interpreting it, so the decision might not have been as bad as it was for me. In fact, it's probably the best made choice from all the one's I've played through if that's the case :P

I'd like to get the thoughts on this from the CT's perspective, so I'll tag @Ackro to see what he has to say :)

 

Your choice. John Cena or The Undertaker.

Quests done rite xd