V. 2.0: Wynncraft's Logic Is All Wrong (again) And I Can Prove It!

So, many of you may remember what happened last time I accused Wynncraft of having bad logic. Yeah, did not turn out so bad on my end. But this time I made sure there are no loopholes! Now before I begin my though process went in this order: Ocean => Nessak => Villagers => Relics. So since my thought process was in that order, I will explain it in that order. If Grian or Salted comes on again to smack me down, so be it. But I know for a fact that this time either I am right, or they need to spoil something big in order to prove me wrong! As always comment what you guys think, and off we go:

Part 1: The Ocean

So, the ocean. I started thinking about the ocean for 2 reasons. Both of them started with my Nilrem thread (feel free to check that out) and both of them were thanks to @Rujala (seriously check him out, hes been helping me with a bunch of stuff lately, even if he does not know it). Here are the two reasons that I started thinking about the ocean:

Villagers, and Gateway Island.

Lets start with Gateway Island. Rujala raised the question of "what province is gateway island in". Well, that is a good question. Gavel does not have an ocean, and the ocean in Wynn has been searched pretty clear of any giant tropical island. So where is it (Now of coarse it is an off-to-the-side build, but we are talking lore and storyline here)? Well, that starts us off. Either Gavel also has an ocean which we do not know about, or the Ocean of wynn extends far past the mountains. My logic (which you will understand as you keep reading) says that both are true.

The second thing is the villagers. Why did they come to Wynn in the first place? Well, they were using the ocean to set up a new trade route, and a storm made them go off coarse. They ended up crashing on the coastal trail and creating Maltic. Ok so they were setting up a trade route when they found Wynn. Well if the ocean is part of Wynn, and we are saying they were using the ocean when they found Wynn? That itself makes no sense. The only way that would be possible is if there is another ocean next to Gavel, which connects to the Wynn one. That alone would be more than we are being told. But let's keep going, I am not done yet.

Part 2: Nessak

Nessak. Well actually no. Not Nessak. Luesco. Yes. We just kind of label the whole icy area "Nessak" but I want to focus on a specific part. The Ice Canyon area that houses Luesco and ToA. It has a frozen over river. But what is so important about that? It is just a river. It comes from the mountains and goes somewhere. Well, it does come from the mountains, but where it goes is the interesting part. I have screenshots but I am having trouble with pictures uploading, so just take my word for it. The frozen river ends in a cave with a frozen ship in it and iron golems called something like "Frozen Iron Golem". Now I want to remind you that this is right next to the cave where we have the Frost Bitten quest.

What does this tell us? Well first of all for a ship of that size to come through, it must have been before the corruption started, before Nessak was frozen over. It must have come on that now-frozen river. And the mountain where the river starts must have not been there, it must have been an entrance to the sea. Or better yet, since the whole area is a canyon, the whole area could have been flooded! Remember before how I said the ocean is most likely bigger than we expected, well this is why. It must have stretched all the way down to Nessak! Whats more is that in Frost Bitten we actually can we the head of the man trapped in the ice. It is a villager head.

Part 3: Villagers

A villager? Wait... What? According to the wiki's storyline page (which, if I am correct, comes right from what Grian said before the wipe) is that the corruption started about a hundred years ago, and the villagers only came 10 years ago. So how do we have a villager frozen in ice? Theorick froze over Nessak long before the corruption started! So it's not like the villager was there when everything got frozen, and the villager (what's his name? Hasol is it?) and the boat were victim to the flash freeze! That would not be possible unless the Villagers somehow came to Wynn long before we thought. Back when the way into the now-ice canyon was not frozen by Theorick. Back before the death of King Fredrick III of Ragni. But that would still require a villager coming from Gavel.

Remember how I also said at the beginning I thought Gavel might have had another ocean next to it? Well this is why. We don't necessarily see any port towns, other than outside of llevengar and near the sky islands, but still, we know they had to have been able to build the ship that we see in the Ice Canyon. And since the Wynnic Ocean does not even touch Nessak, we would need an ocean that bout touched Nessak and Gavel in order for the villager ship to come all the way down there.

Humans are from both Fruma and Wynn, so why can't villagers come from another province? Who says that boat even came from Gavel? Well, you have a point. There could be another province containing villagers to the South. But you know why I say this specific boat came from Gavel? It has those golems on it. Iron golems come from Gavel only, because we learn in Iron Heart how Iron Golems are made. The whole process takes place in Gavel. And since the whole process take place in Gavel, we know if a ship has iron golems, it comes from Gavel.

Part 4: Relics

Now, this part no longer talks about what we found in Nessak, but was still part of the thought process. Lets take a look at relics. All the powders are guarded by Iron Golems, and all the non powders are guarded by Wither Skeletons. Now ignoring the wither skeles, lets look at the Iron Golems. If all Iron Golems are made in Gavel, how do we have some guarding relics? That legitimately does not make sense. But lets take a step even further into relics. How did they come to be?

Well we know they are ancient. And we know that before humans existed in Wynn, there were ancient creatures (represented by endermen) who we happen to see in Wynn Excavation Site D. So they could easily have built the Relics in Wynn. But wait, there's more! Relics also exist in Gavel. Did these Ancients exist in Gavel as well? Well, possibly. How else would we have relics in both Gavel and Wynn. Wait, but where did they all go in Gavel then? Like, we see them in WE D in Wynn, but why no where in Gavel?


Conclusion:

So far in this post the things we have covered are:

The Ocean having to be bigger than we are told OR another ocean existing next to Gavel that we do not know about

Said ocean would have had to run all the way to what is now the Ice Canyons

Villagers would have had to step foot in Wynn at least a century before we think they did

Iron Golems are far too modern for the Relics, which pre-date any recorded history

Relics exist in Both Wynn and Gavel even though as far as we know, there was no contact between the provinces further back than a decade

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Not mentioned in post, just thought of now:

If fruma is to the west, then that would require the ocean to go around fruma... Or come over from the east. But if the ocean came from the east, then how could the miners be digging into the abandoned mines and claim to find a new province? Either the ocean is HUGE and goes all around fruma, or the logic is even more broken!


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So once again, please comment what you think. I 100% sure this time that either I am right, or there is something we are not being told (which I would have already guessed in this thread)

 

Ocean: This actually is a bit weird. Please find the exact dialogue if you can when villagers say that were blown off course.

Nessak: Thats.... not how water works. The water from mountains comes from melted snow/glacier. Rivers START at mountains. Also be aware of WHERE the Ice Canyon region is. If it was flooded at one point it would have to be a LONG time ago because if the water could somehow reach there then literally at least 90% of Wynn would be flooded. Since there is a ton of vegetation in the Jungle region (Which is literally right next to Ice Canyon) the flood would have to have happened a long time ago.

Villager: It only takes a few hours for a layer of frost to cover your body if you stop moving, so there's no way to make this kind of time judgement.

Relics: Again PLEASE recheck how time works. Relics are NOT that old because they drop letters that were written AFTER Bob dies.

 

And Grian gives away another spoiler...

 

that would legit me really funny

 

Well, if we're trying to apply logic to a game, Relend's sails would be destroyed if he tried to leave Jofash Dock anyways.

Anyways, I always envisioned Gateway Island a bit like this: The island always exists, it never moves. But there's sort of a magic forcefield around it, that kinda just tells your subconscious to sail around it once you get close. And as long as you're outside of the forcefield, you can't see the island. So, no one ever really notices it, for the most part. However, when Relend's ship crashed, he had no control of where it was going, and it crashed straight into the island.

 

For what you have so far:

Ocean: I can not find the exact spot I found that, but the official storyline and the underwater quest both talk about a crash. Meaning coming to wynn was unintentional.

For the Nessak part: remember, it was not always frozen over. The river could have easily existed before it was frozen over. (I want to double check this next part) From what I remember about the ice river, it does not start at a glacier. And as you said, a flood would have to be a long time ago. The corruption started 100 years ago, and Nessak froze over like half a century before that or something. Perhaps more. Long enough for you?

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So you make 2 points.

1: I know all about gateway island, but I do not know about the quest itself. But if the sails broke, then screw it, the rowed the boat. (most medieval boats had both sail and oars)

2: It would still appear on the map.

 

Well, at one point in the quest, the boat's in the middle of the ocean, sails intact.

No one who's made a full map of the ocean has ever realized Gateway Island exists. Only a small few have ever actually seen the island, and I don't think any of them were interested in making maps.

 

Once again, I have not done the quest, so I did not know that. But perhaps they tucked the sail away and took it out when the weather cleared?

1: I was referring to the wynncraft map. 2: Everyone who does the quest goes to the island. So that's not "very few" But in either case, I have a question for you. Are you confirming that Gateway Island is in fact in the ocean of wynn?

 

Great thread, as always ;3

About the Relic Guardians... The Iron Golems might have been created by the old Ancients and the Villagers started doing guards like theirs, because they found the guards very useful.

I don't think he confirmed, I think he thinks that Gateway Island is in Wynn, but with a magical barrier. BUT, that wouldn't make sense either, because we, the players, have travell'd all over the ocean, so we would of have seen it :p

 

Once again, invisible forcefield that prevents you from seeing it. Even a full render of the ocean won't make it appear.

Well, you and Relend aren't the only ones to ever go to Gateway Island. Someone had to make that map you swiped at the beginning of the quest.

Anyways, I can't confirm anything. For all I know, the lore in Grian's mind is that Gateway Island is in a parallel universe where the only thing different is that kittens run the government. But, considering the ship departs from Jofash Dock, a dock on the Wynn Ocean, I'd say it's pretty likely that Gateway Island is in the Wynn Ocean.

I also happened to mention that I believe the forcefield tells your subconscious to sail your boat around it, without you even realizing. It's why no one's ever noticed there's a huge circle in the middle of the ocean that no one's ever gone inside.

 

If you can not confirm anything, than you can not confirm the "invisible force field" thing.

 

No I cannot. That's just how I pictured it.

 

It's probably just a way of looking at it

 

Thats what I figured.

Just making sure :)

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what do you guys think of the villager situation. There has not been that much talk on that...

 

Didn't Nessak freeze over when one of the Twain brothers [Theorick] went Awol (can't remember which)? (Ignore that and the fact I don't know how to do a strikethrough, you already mentioned this) Pretty sure Mael (another Twain brother) trained Bob so I would say the timeline is more like:

(Roughly 1000 years Before Villager Arrival) Portal opens (Quote from the wiki on the Storyline: Within a few years, the expanded empire was defeated, the magic the humans wielded put up a good fight but the monsters were evenly matched, the war waged on for a hundred years, forever being supplied with new monsters from the portal)

(Around the time of Villager Arrival) Nessak freezes over, Mael Twain trains Bob

(10 A.V.A.) You arrive from Fruma (Quote from the wiki on the Storyline: Now we are brought to just a decade ago [snip] For the first time, the Wynn province was host to two humanoid species, the humans, and the soon arriving villager race).

 

Lore-wise, there aren't thousand of adventurers running around, just a single one.
For example, Death has been beaten one time, not a few thousand.

 

True

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Yes, Theorick froze over Nessak, but that was far before the portal opened. When it opened all the brothers were very old. I will try to grab the full lore from one of my other threads

 

If we're talking about how bad Wynncraft's logic is, I can say that Bob died for a lot of years ago, right? But if Bob died for, let's say hundred years ago, how could his friend Tarod still be alive? (The guy you start Bob's Lost Soul at)

Does anyone actually know when Bob died?

 

Does anyone actually know how Bob died?

 

Well we don't know how long ago bob died. If he was very little when it opened, and let's say he is older than tarod, then sure, he could still be alive

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CoW