Bosses, And How They Still Suck (not A Hate Thread)

So, I would like to start with, That I love Gavel and i appreciate everything they have done with Wynn. Endgame now actually exists, the quests are fun, and there is a lot of variety. And the land scape isnt boring like Wynn itself. But, i am very disappointed with one major aspect, and im sure you can guess it

Table of Contents

Spoiler

1. Whats wrong with bosses
2.How to make them better
3 Conclusion

1. Bosses
They still suck, A lot

Now, i wouldnt care one bit if it wasnt for one thing. It was Igbar's suggestion to improve bosses, and it won! So bosses should be badass instead of big blobs of health that cast one spell?

Wrong

They are exactly the same, i have played a fair amount of Gavel. I haven't seen a single boss that wasn't the normal formula

1 spell
Tons of health
Just sits there 90% of the time and never moves

Thats all they do.
And its boring, and frankly too easy. Hell the enemies are harder. Igbar's suggestion is amazing, and it deserved to win. It would of made bosses INTERESTING.

But, this isnt going to be purely a hate thread.

2. How to make them better
2a Improve AI
Yes, I know improving AI is a bit of a high demand, but mob AI is so much better than boss AI. For example, bosses literally just kinda stand there, shooting stuff at you. Easy to dodge, but the boss will still take a really long time. Make it so they charge at you (Not actually use charge but run at you) Retreat, and juke. Hell, I think that bosses need to be immune to knockback so you cant just corner them with arrow storm.If they were immune to knockback, it would back bosses a hell of a lot more interesting and way more difficult.
2b Diversity
Now, this is one of my biggest gripes of bosses. For example when i was fighting the Thunder boss I was like "Woah, okay this is unique, he can teleport and blind me. Now that being cool, didnt last very long as in the air floor, i found a normal enemy that can do the exact same thing. If your giving an ability to a boss, dont reuse it on a basic enemy. Sure bosses can share mechanics, but if its their only move. Copy and pasting it to basic mobs, makes bosses feel a lot less unique
2c Better Spells
I under stand this is kinda of a given, but the spells used by mobs are just plain boring. For example, I saw a boss that did arrow storm, archers already do that. I found a mob that teleported and blinded, Mages already do that. A mob that charges? Yep, warriors do that. It would make sense if for example it was a skeleton such as [lvl 9001 Undead Warrior] And it did charge it would make sense. But a random enemy using charge, while you can do the same move, is just lazy. I realize its a lot of work into making spells, and i respect the development team. Now, let me make it clear that im not saying bosses cant use class spells, if only it makes sense in the lore. Bob, for example, he should ALREADY use all of the class spells as it fits into his lore.

3 Conclusion
Bosses, need a serious rework, and despite the boss suggestion reigning victorious, it was still completely and utterly ignored. I am sorry if I insulted the content team, and i did not mean to. Thank you for reading
-Enderman1234
(If you put option 2, please explain why you think they were improved, i cant find a single boss that was improved. And only one out of the bunch, in my opinion doesnt count.)

 

I completely agree, but remember, there are still a few (many) quests and fights to come with the Storyline update. Remember the big caterpillar thingy from the teaser? Let us hope better bosses await us there.

Also, boss fights are more than just the boss. Look at Qira. Alone, she could probably be taken on by two people easily. With her Drones, you need a massive raid party to take her on. The enviroments of the fight make it that much more interesting.

 

Havent fought her yet, does she fit into the formula though?

 

Qira as a single entity simply stands, walks, casts a cobweb spell, and shoots a stream of hyper-damage skulls every 3/4 of a second. However, what makes her fight interesting is a constant flow of Drones from the ceiling, each attuned to a different element and casting different spells. Some casts Multi-hit, some shoot flames around them, others leap towards their opponent. To fight Qira is to fight an entire room at once, and that is what makes her fight good. It may not be as diversified as you might want, but I believe it to be a good fight.

 

It's crazy hard unless you get a good 6-7 people. You should try to get 2 mages and a warrior in there

 

Qira herself is just a wall of heath and regen though.

 

That is exactly what im talking about. Adds shouldnt be the whole boss mechanic. Look at wow for example. Sure the latest raids are shit. But Wrath of the lich king the raids were AMAZING. The drones are pretty cool, But qira herself ALSO needs to be cool for it to be a good bossfight.

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If you consider the drones to make the bossfight, the Death should be a great bossfight. But its shit is it not?

 

Death is different. Qira Drone's are made for her fight, and they work together. Death's fight is just bs. 7 Bosses (even if 3-4 of them do nothing), along with two bosses that charge, and one that casts multihit, all in an insanely small chamber that provides no room to use most movement spells. Qira's chamber is large enough for any sort of strategic manuevering.

 

The issues here are the fact that we have limited amounts of spells, and bosses can't cast more than one.

YET.

Blame Jumla, we're working on it.

As for the gimmicks of bosses being 'reused' on normal enemies, The Psychomancer(the boss you're referencing) fire high-damage, high-variance projectile bursts and teleports around like a madman to incapacitate you. The Windcut Harpies move quickly normally, but are melee attackers and use that Teleport much, MUCH less often. Other enemies can use Arrow Storm, but Gale's whole gimmick is that she's CONSTANTLY using it, even as her basic attack. Plus, since mobs have to stop to charge up spells, ranged mobs always try to be within a certain range of you before stopping to fire, and the fact that she has ridiculously high speed, she'll more often than not blindside you with a volley of arrows and suddenly be on the other side of the room firing at you. There's more to the bosses than just hitting them over and over again...

But the knockback effects being decreased is something I definitely agree upon.

 

Thanks for the reply! i really did enjoy the Psychomancer boss fight (Now i have no idea who gale is, is it air? i just corner bosses with arrow storm o.o) I do agree that bosses with those types of gimmicks are interesting. But the slime in the belly of the beast. The pirate queen and many others i cant think of right now just sit there and do nothing. The earthboss didnt even hit me once, which is kinda of a problem. And the knockback effects should be nerfed on all enemies as it really decreases the damage of arrow storm. Bosses healths i think should be increased but not the regen, making it possible to kill bosses solo or 2-3 people, but extremly difficult. Maybe an enrage timer or something if thats possible to put you on the clock so you can strafe forever. But the point of Gale haveing inseane movement speed. Im an archer and every single boss i approach the same besides the chargers and the teleporters. I run up to them, corner them with arrowstorm and just strafe back and forth, now if there was no knockback... that boss would be a lot cooler. You have definitely brought up a good point!

 

Any idea WHY they can't use more than one?

 

The new boss spells I've seen are simply the Cobweb and the Flamethrower, both of which are unobtainable in normal Spell form, however, both of which are already used by Arakadicus and Lava Cow. I'd like to see a little more diversity in spells. To take Hypixel's Mega Walls as an example, you can shoot Wither Skulls, have homing arrows, regenerate health, explode, shoot a laser, and so many more. The bosses' and mobs' spells just seem like a mirror of a class's spells, which seems kinda...uncreative. It's also surprising the amount of bosses I've seen that aren't even moving. The ToA Bosses, Guardian and Chained Beast were tough for me since I had to constantly be moving to avoid them, and they'd occasionally leap and explode, but the bosses I've seen simply stand there accepting hits while I circle them to avoid their shots every second.

 

Pirate Queen's weird spell which sends you flying around the room bouncing of the walls and straight into her dagger was pretty neat.

 

When I think of diverse bosses that take lots of skill to kill, I think of those "Boss Maps" that you can find on some Minecraft map download websites. They require parkour during the fight, have unique attacks, and are killed in different ways. Most of them are killed via wooden buttons that must be shot with a bow, obviously this is the only boring part, and should be replaced somehow. What I'm trying to focus on though is not those buttons, but the different strategies that it takes to fight them, because that's what Wynncraft bosses need, more variables that are put into the fight. If you don't know what I'm talking about, just search up "Minecraft Boss Map" on Youtube.

 

Exactly, phases is what would make bosses intersting. A lot of good bosses require different things to kill an enemy. WoW requires targeting of the adds to deal damage to the enemy and the such.

 

sorry but i dont wanna lag more

 

What you're describing is that Qira uses adds (adds are basically the mobs that aren't important, eg: Drones) to make her encounter interesting. While they do make it somewhat interesting with the different abilities, Bosses shouldn't rely on adds (or at least overuse them) to be considered a boss fight. I think that instead of using adds, mechanics should be implemented. If you take a look at my raid suggestion in my signature and scroll down to the last encounter (the one with the king) you'll see that the boss doesn't do much and can take a lot of damage, until some members of the party return with a strength potion that boosts the party's damage, making damaging the boss much more easier. While there is adds in that encounter, I don't think they'll cause much of a problem.

Another example that can bridge the gap between adds and mechanics, is by having certain mobs drop gunpowder, and using that gunpowder to fire a cannon that will damage a boss significantly.

WAIT YOU CAN FIRE A FUCKING LASER IN MEGA WALLS? WHAT CLASS IS THAT TROLL

 

Arcanist.

 

Is this a suggestion...

 

As my colleague Selvut here was saying, we do not have a lot to work with. I can truly agree that many bossfights aren't the coolest (including mine), but if we were to have had a vast variety of things to choose from things would've been different.
I mean, Selvut is left playing with speeds of spells now, since that is among the only things that can make mobs different. If we could gather up at least 30 different spell and AI-ideas, that would mean the world to us GMs. I truly hate to say that I did a bad job with a boss mob, but there is nothing I can do. There really isn't.