SPOILER I'm not really feeling the Fruma story line.

I don't feel like hoping for consistency in character is too much to ask for from a story focused game. As i said in my earlier post, I have no intention of ever finishing the Fruma questline unless an update requires it, mostly because I don't feel like the actions undertaken in the quests match what the character is/what is trying to be portrayed. Also, I'm not gonna torture myself with something I feel is uninteresting and counter to most of the story.

In my opinion, the Fruma questline fundamentally fails in doing its objective. Doesn't mean the quests as a standalone are bad just means that as a cohesive story, they just don't make sense to me.

Last thing I'll say about this. The motivations put infront of you by the Fruma questline do not match with pre-Fruma or, frankly, within the Fruma questline.

I like plenty of things in Wynn, the Fruma questline just happens to be something that I refuse to engage with for the reasons I've listed.

 

This is a pretty interesting take, and while I personally really liked the Fruma storyline, I definitely get where you're coming from.

You mention that drastic changes need to happen to the storyline pre-Fruma, and yeah, that kinda is what needs to happen. The PC in the early-game storyline (lv 1-30) does feel like someone who is less chaotic and would be more attached to Tasim. The issue stems from an outdated midgame/mid-lategame where our character's motivations are more random and Tasim never shows up, so hopefully a revamp will improve stuff so that a Tasim-related motivation makes more sense.

I also think that the player doesn't come off as that chaotic in the earlygame and fruma storyline, and their apparent chaos stems from a lot of outdated midgame quests like Jungle Fever or Shadow of the Beast. We just feel more neutral good there. Us killing the soldiers in Fort Torann is kind of an exception to this and I do think it's really out of place with how cautious we otherwise act in Fruma.

 

holy shit dude I don't even know if I want to dissect the response after reading this landslide of messages

 

I'm gonna have to disagree there; I've been stealing everything that isn't nailed down for like 110 levels at this point. I'm totally jacking his necklace, his wallet, his watch, I'm rifling through his pockets for change, hell, I'm probably trying on his shirt to see if it fits and looking for gold fillings.

You can say some of my wanton pillaging isn't canon, but it occupies so much of my time that saying none of it is canon takes away a lot of agency from the player by implying that a large amount of their playtime is non-canon. Also, some of it is objectively, unambiguously canon (I've robbed graves, numerous banks, stole a train ticket, then stole a train pass, all for quests).

 

There's Breaking Point, where there's a humorous sequence where you're lent a grappling hook by King Draani, finish a parkour challenge, return with senseless, whimsical acrobatics, and he takes it back from you for fear of what you'd do with the power of a grappling hook in your hands. Then you literally interrupt a serious sequence about the hopelessness of the situation at hand to ask the kind what he had for breakfast, what books he's read, and what his favorite colors is... and he humors you.

Then there's the end of this quest line, where

Spoiler

you have multiple ridiculous conversation branches with Anathema after you kill her and, among other things, have a ridiculous exchange about trying to fix her with a healing potion.

We're not even pretending the player isn't a chaotic force of nature in this expansion.

 

Jesus christ OP is straight up illiterate. I'm not even going to dignify this by reading it so I can respond.

 

Tasim is not necessarily our primary objective. The dialogue makes this clear. See: A New Beginning, Syndra asks, "Why are you here, cursed one?"

You are right that if we were specifically here to find Tasim, we do act a bit strange. It's not _that_ strange, though. The only better option I see is, once we complete Off the Rails, we take the train to Hyloch or Aelumia and start searching. Some kind of spy mission. Not a bad idea for a quest ngl? It would be futile, though. The writers make it very clear that Tasim is off doing his ascension or whatever, until we actually end up seeing him in Echoes. They also drop hints about this earlier in the questline.

I think the main point of your post, and your issue with Fruma in general, is that you think the writers want us to care a ton about Tasim, but you think the player character _wouldn't_ care a ton about Tasim. I think you're wrong about this. I don't think the writers want us to care a _ton_ about Tasim. If we did, we probably _would_ act a bit differently in Fruma. I do think they want us to be curious about his fate, though, so we're actually interested in seeing his character arc. If you play through the storyline fully, I think you might see why :).

 

I feel like this is a less Wynncraft-specific issue, where individual player actions and how long it takes them to do something can't really be canon. Like, even in a Mario game, it doesn't make sense why Mario would stop on his way to Bowser's Castle to do a bonus level or play a level over again for power-ups. The way I personally interpret it, everything that Wynncraft explicitly tracks and marks as completed, like quests, caves, and dungeons are canon, but grinding in bat cave or repeating a dungeon aren't.

 

I'm a bit confused by some of the points you have here. I think I'm missing something.

"I don't feel like the actions undertaken in the quests match what the character is/what is trying to be portrayed."
Which actions? Is this specifically about the Tasim focus, or something different?

"the Fruma questline fundamentally fails in doing its objective."
What is the objective? I'm a bit unsure what you're talking about here. Are you talking about Tasim's arc or the general dystopian society storytelling?

"The motivations put infront of you by the Fruma questline do not match with pre-Fruma or, frankly, within the Fruma questline."
I think you're talking about the Tasim focus again, unless I'm mistaken. This isn't the only motivation, though. You do say "motivations" (plural), but I don't know which other motivations you're referring to. Could you clarify?

 

Which brings us back to the problem at hand: The player is a kleptomaniacal demigod who would have no reason to act the way he does in Fruma; but the story is written for a guy who isn't already established to be above all this petty sneaking and "resisting".

 

Im generally aware of what the Fruma questline entails I just havent played through it. And the parts that i haven't played through sound as uninteresting as the parts that i have played through.

The point i was trying to make about the questline failing in its objective was this: In my view the questline begins with you needing to care about Tasim. Now, you as your IRL self might care about Tasim, but the PC has very little reason to do so. The problem i have with it is that the idea of the PC really caring about Tasim is the reason they break into Fruma.

Theres other things about the questline that gave me the view of our motivations being more so influenced by the idea that the writing team has for the character rather than the actual personality/morals of the PC but i did those quests a while ago and I'm not going to comment on that with more clarity since frankly I've forgotten alot of the nuance i took issue with.

As for the actions part: I feel that the actions of the PC do not align with pre-Fruma PC. Again, I don't remember in clear enough detail the exact things i had a problem with so I'm not going to comment more

Those are the main things that i remember having an issue with when playing the Questline. Idk if those answer your questions or not.

 

What do you mean by this exactly? Are you saying that your main issue with the Fruma questline is that it is/sounds uninteresting? Sorry, I just didn't get that sense from your previous posts.

What about it specifically is uninteresting? Is it that there's a lack of mystical/otherworldly creatures? It's a general departure from that focus Wynncraft wise. Of course there are portions of Fruma that involve this. Major portions, in fact, but it's not as prominent throughout. Fruma is much more character-driven and human-oriented, as you've seen. There's also less in-quest combat from what I've noticed. Obviously there's still some, but other Wynncraft quests have a lot more non-boss related combat from my experience.

"In my view the questline begins with you needing to care about Tasim." Depending on your definition of "care," I strongly disagree with this. I mentioned this in my previous posts, but I personally believe the questline only requires that you be interested in Tasim's fate. That is to say, you need to be curious to find out what's up with him in Fruma and why he stayed behind, what deal he took, etc. It's not that you're trying to save his life or be scared for him. Certainly, you could be, but it's not required. What evidence are you using to determine that the questline necessitates you care about Tasim? And what do you mean by "care"? If you're arguing that we go back to Fruma just for him, I already provided evidence that this isn't the case (in prev posts).

On second thought, I'm not even sure if the questline requires you care about Tasim's fate. Definitely makes it more fun if you do though.

"I don't remember in clear enough detail the exact things i had a problem with so I'm not going to comment more," I understand, you're kinda going based on old vibes you got. Makes sense honestly, considering it took a while for Fruma to release. I know you might not be able to remember exact quests/dialogue that suggests a personalty/morals for the PC, but I am curious if you can elaborate on the vibes you have for such. For example, what are the PC's morals in regards to "Objective Good" and "Spite" which you mentioned in your first post. What do you mean by Objective Good/Spite and what in the Fruma storyline suggests a departure from that?

 

As i said previously i don't remember the nuance of the things i took issue with. I do not enjoy the Fruma questline and am frankly uninterested in going through the wiki/replaying it in order to give you an accurate explanation. I could not care less about the "lack of mystical/otherworldly creatures" i simply find the quests themselves dull(the side quests were the best part imo lmao, aside from the train. Fuck the train.) and our actions within them to be uncharacteristic. The previous posts were simply my explanation on the feelings i got while playing through it. As for the Spite/Objective Good/Adventure part of your inquiry i believe i said that in regards to our motivation to go to Fruma(i cba to reread my previous messages) and the unrealistic part of Tasim being that motivation. What i meant under it was that the PC does not care enough for Tasim to break into Fruma, and that the actual reason is one of those reasons.

Either way im really not interested in continuing talking about something that genuinely pissed me off when i was playing it.

 

No worries! Thanks for replying anyway.

 

Spoiler

Sovereign Tasim: But... please. Just a little more. I can't... I can't let anyone else die for my mistakes.

• ...there you are, after all.
  • Player: ...there you are, after all. I finally found who I came here looking for.
  • He doesn't see sure how to react. Conflicting emotions cross his face...but it settles on a familiar determination as he holds his hand out towards the charm.
    • The dialogue branches combine here.

This isn't exactly vibes and speculation here. If the writers didn't want people thinking the motivation wasn't Tasim, they needed to start the invasion with something other than

Spoiler

• Ragni's King: ...Ah. I see. So I suppose...things must not have gone well. Have all the others returned?
• Ragni's King: So, Tasim has stayed behind then. I'm to suppose you're worried for his safety, in amongst any other worries you might have.
• Ragni's King: Alas, I'm afraid my hands are quite tied here. There is little I can do— you recall what I said in the meeting.

 

This is only one dialogue choice of several. Thus, it is not required.

This isn't the player's action or the player's speech. Thus, it is irrelevant. It is simply the writers trying to get you to care about Tasim.

Let me elaborate, as I know it's a bit confusing. For the questline to necessitate that you care about Tasim, it must include a _required_ _player action_ or _player dialogue_ that the player would only do if they cared about Tasim. Neither of these examples fall under this definition.

Logically this definition makes sense. It applies to the playthrough as follows: If the player doesn't care about Tasim at all, they wouldn't choose the dialogue choice in your first example, nor would they care what Ragni's King says.

 

Honestly a lot of this has been built on the questionable premise of the player not caring about Tasim... I think most would? He's in enough early game quests to be someone most would have a fond enough memory of, and considering he was clearly grieving and about to get used for something in Fruma, I think most people would want to go back. It'd be one thing if he was the only motivation the player had to go to Fruma, but he's not, most players would also be interested in whatever was going on with Two and the Queen, and considering the player originated from Fruma, they'd have stakes in figuring out why most of Fruma was off-limits and their in-game backstory, even if the latter hasn't been revealed (yet).

 

If your big argument is "the player didn't force you to sit through a monologue about his concern for Tasim before breaking into Fruma", then you're asking for the ridiculous. The King knows your intentions for going. You may even have said them in those responses you give that aren't written out because you don't have a choice in what's said.

But I could let that go if you didn't also turn around and tell me that the dialogue where you literally tell Tasim you came here for him doesn't count because you could technically have chosen otherwise. The writers literally gave you the option to state, personally and concretely, that you're there for him. Full stop. They believed this was his motivation. They didn't let you state a completely different, mutually exclusive motivation alongside that, they specifically sat down and believed "I'm came here to get you, Tasim" was representative of the player's motivations.

 

There isn't one of those forced responses for this interaction with the King

Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the King knows your intentions for going. Again, it's not really relevant. Unless you're suggesting the King can read minds (you're not). The player isn't forced to do anything here that they would do only if they cared about Tasim. Don't you see what I mean? Someone who doesn't care about Tasim could totally still be interested in breaking into Fruma.

This is so confusing to me. There's like 3 other examples of optional dialogue where the player says they're here to look for Tasim. It's not just in Apotheosis. In my first post, I mentioned one, when Syndra asks, "Why are you here, cursed one?" You can respond, "I'm looking for a friend." My point has always been that it's not _required_. If you don't care about Tasim, you simply don't choose dialogue choices that say you do.

 

Why is OP continually presuming male-default WynnPC? Projection? An inaccurately specific conception of the character?