Art direction

Hello. I’ve recently gotten back into Wynncraft. As a matter of fact, I haven’t done a single lootrun from the new lootrun update. But I did keep up with the news. So I know there were some debates about the new UI.
I thought it looked kinda bad. The content book looked off, but it was whatever. Nothing that would make Wynncraft unplayable.
However, I did think that everyone shared this sentiment. So I was a bit surprised when I went online and it seemed I was in the minority. Other people actually liked the new UI.
And it seems that with 2.1 they’re doubling down on this kind of art direction. I’m not an artist, but I do believe I have some valid complaints.

Do keep in mind that I don’t have access to the beta, so I’m not fully aware of all the changes the update brings.

First of all, it’s going to be very important to determine what exactly is “wrong” with the new textures. Let’s establish a few common traits between them.
-Vivid colors which pop out more
-Simplified designs
-That god-forsaken font that I hate

Spoiler: The font

There are some great examples of gorgeous textures that were added not too long ago. Take a look at the ability tree or the tome page, from 2.0.

Spoiler: Tree and Tomes

The ability tree, for example, has vivid colors. The artstyle is definitely polished, but it doesn’t shy away from the little details. It’s honestly perfect.

Usually we associate bland colors with soulless things. Likewise, we see vibrant colors as the opposite: something full of life. Despite all this, I still found myself regarding some of the more colorful interfaces as lifeless. Here’s why: every UI from the lootrun update feels forced. They completely abandoned the medieval style and filled up the screen with pretty colors (small exaggeration). To me, it comes off as cheap, something very corporate.
This undoubtedly makes the game feel more childish, but that is not inherently the problem. We, as humans, are naturally attracted to pretty, shiny things. A design that makes use of this psychology to its advantage, but doesn’t stray away from using more muted colors, does wonders.

Since I’m not a pixel artist myself, instead of trying to describe things by words let me use an example (here’s a gif).

Spoiler: TBOI sprites

These images are taken from an old devlog for a DLC of the game The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth. I’m guessing most of you at least heard of TBOI, so I’ll use these sprites to simplify.

As you can see, the updated sprites feature more vivid colors (and more dynamic designs). They feel overall more polished, displaying more personality. These resprites took what made the originals great and improved on what they lacked. So while the colors and the shading are more vibrant, the sprites most certainly aren’t “kiddy”. They are more appealing, however.
Now, let’s look at some resprites from Wynncraft itself, for the 2.1 update.

The good:

Spoiler: Great

Most menus “innate” to the player are actually pretty good, I’d say. The art is very clean, but doesn’t shy away from more intricate designs. They also seem to have tweaked the content book, so now it looks better, but I haven’t looked much into it. There really isn’t much for me to pick apart here.

The bad:

Spoiler: Not great

They changed the ability tree. Why? It doesn’t seem to be that big of a change, but I personally don’t like it. Still, the art isn’t inherently bad, just downgraded and a bit simplified.
The blacksmith menu, however, is way too bland. There are no details here, nothing noteworthy. Just a big brown blob. At the bottom of the menu you can tell they tried adding some wrinkles and cut(s) (there’s a singular one), but in the upper part they just gave up. I had to stare at the UI for a few minutes before I realized there were smudges of darker brown spread around. Any attempts at adding texture to the UI here just look like stray pixels. Clusters of 3-4 pixels of dark brown…

I’ve talked enough about the UI. I’d like to now move on to the new remodels 2.1 brings.
My first exposure to the remodels was through the 2.1 trailer, which features Orphion during its beginning. Naturally, I’ll begin by dissecting his model first.

Spoiler: Orphion

Oh, sorry. Wrong picture.

Spoiler: LIGHT snack

Look man, I’m not here to kink shame anyone. But for the love of god, make it less obvious you’re into vore.
I mean, the tumor hanging off Orphion’s front sure as hell looks like a full belly.
He’s a quadruped, though. So I guess that can’t be his stomach.

Actually, let me look up the anatomy.

Spoiler: ...

Great. Orphion has a voluptuous chest. Just what I needed to know.

Moving along. Let’s take a look at the old Orphion.

Spoiler: Orphion

As you can see, the design itself is a lot “rougher” and rather unpolished. Take a look at the paws, for example.
As far as I know, this was one of the first big models Wynncraft worked on, so this makes sense. Regardless, it was and still is very impressive, doing its job as a model well.
You can tell they were trying to go for a more realistic, anatomically correct approach.

Now, let me just


Look at it. Look at its eyes. Put him out of his misery.

The textures themselves (the pictures that wrap around the blank model) seem fine to me. It’s hard to judge though, since the model itself is a bit meh. Orphion has definitely lost most of his grandiose, now looking more “marketable”.

I’m guessing that since the content team is using new tools to make the animations for Wynncraft, they needed to remodel the bosses to make them “compatible” with this new system. It honestly does feel like they were trying to fill a quota of “reworked bosses” for the new update. I mean, TNA was literally released one major update ago. The boss didn’t need a new model. It’s specially weird considering there’s still a handful of mobs left completely untouched.
I get that they wanted to add more raid content. They wanted to rework the bosses, and for that they either needed new models to complete their vision, or just went: “Might as well”.
But in my opinion, it just ends up feeling rushed.

Captain Redbeard, Charon and Garoth all had amazing remodels/reworks. But what 2.1 is bringing just feels utterly unnecessary.

Look at the The Eye. It’s supposed to be gross, disgusting… The Dern Beast quite literally gouged its eye out. But, just like the rest of the Silent Expanse, it was the GOOD kind of gross. The remodel looks… weird. Really weird. Most animations are janky and clunky.
I get the raid bosses, but why even touch The Eye? I really liked the blocky model it had, it didn’t feel “outdated” by any means.

I like the Annihilation. I also love the new ambience mobs. The content team excels when treading new territory.
But for example, why are they making the animals realistic?

Spoiler: Grook

This is more up to personal taste, but I much prefer the normal minecraft models. All that development time could’ve gone elsewhere.

Will I get used to the new models and textures? Surely.
But that doesn’t mean I don’t wish they had taken a different direction.

 

Honestly, I think the new models look great, and I think they're starting to brand Wynncraft as an independent mmorpg, rather than the minecraft mmorpg. Replacing the minecraft models with realistic ones, and removing the blockiness of some of the bosses like the grootslang, orphion, and the eye is part of that process, and I think it is very beneficial to the game, especially to newbies.
The new UIs kinda suck though, your right. It feels a little out of place from the aesthetic that Wynncraft has.

 

hi. modeler here.
We're not. These are still very stylized and are nowhere near realistic.

This, in general, is kind of Wynncraft's style. You can see this in the builds as well. It's more cartoony and lively with colors being much more prevalent. Even in the textures of all the blocks, everything has a very warm hue as opposed to vanilla's blue-r tones.

This is an issue with the pose he strikes in the trailer. In game this issue doesn't rear its head ever. Here's some photos of what he actually looks like.


no comment on you bringing up fetishes.

Look at old Orphion's eyes. They literally clip through his face. Their texture is a redstone lamp.

Very much the opposite. He used to look like a crusty hunched over creature. He didn't look grand in the slightest.

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As you said, you don't have beta access, but if you did I imagine you wouldn't make this post after being able to experience it all in person.

 

Don’t change orphion it went from worst boss fight to pretty much the best because of the models and animations in his attacks

 

I agree with what you said about the UIs but not about the new models and especially not Orphion. His old model was pretty awful, fine for the standards of that time but not good compared to other minecraft servers and wynn models.
Greg would have looked so out of place if his model didn't get updated.
And like what DrGREEN said, holy hell Orphion has an amazingly enjoyable boss fight now.

What you said about the UIs is true though. They look too flashy and colorful and like they don't have to be boring to fit Wynncraft's style but I dislike the direction it's going. ESPECIALLY the chat UIs, those look like they were pulled straight out of some featured bedrock server. The new inventory UIs are fine though, I don't like the blacksmith having a table but since it's an anvil in repair mode it's probably fine. The raid UIs look good too. And of course the new pause menu UI is so good.

The font is the worst part for me though. Why are there like. four. different fonts used in the UIs, it just bugs me so much. The health bar font is alright and not as unreadable during combat as I expected, definitely better than the previous one. The font that's used in the blacksmith, identifier, and other NPCs though, it just irks me idk. It would be so much nicer if it was just the default font.

And the ability tree... i just don't get why that was changed in the first place. I think that's the only change that is an objective downgrade. It just looks like glow in the dark play dough and not runes carved into stone. And why does the yellow node look like a paw?

But the new models are fuckin awesome and I will die on that hill.

________________________________

And I don't understand what you mean about the new models being more "realistic". The terrified pigs literally have eyes that bulge across their head. They are a change from the vanilla models, sure, but they don't look realistic in any way IMO.

 

They got rid of the amongus node :(

 

is it bad the new models are less realistic or bad theyre more realistic

presumeably to fit the aspect menu

i dont really get the complaints about the new ability tree, its far more readable. the only complaint i'd have is that the archetype icons look a bit out of place.

and i think the reason the blacksmith table has to look plain is that most of it gets covered up with items. theres still a lot of dead space around it but i think that's unavoidable due to how minecraft's UIs work.


the new orphion model is just better than the old one. it has the same basic shape as before and because of the new model systems he doesn't need to be built like a ziggurat to have roundish edges.

 

I've never felt myself disagreeing more vividly with any take but this, orphion looks dazzling, why'd you even target orphion when remodeled TNA is RIGHT THERE with his YEE YEE ASS disproportionate PELVIS!!!!!! and CUBIC HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really enjoy the new wynn font, it makes it so much more readable and clear (for peeps with vision problems like me) and overall is a massive stylistic improvement, additionally the blacksmith is much better imo, i dont think anyone has ever seen him as a real blacksmith and more of a "ah yes this NPC buys my items" and i think the new UI really shows that

The new orphion model is way, way better and if anything a shame he isnt a pet in game with how majestic he moves and poses




(also for argument's sake please look at new greg's head and model)

Spoiler: yeeyee ass anomaly

 

What? These two messages are entirely independent from one another. You even went ahead and did a little switcharoo with the order.

This message came first. It isn't an opinion, it's a statement. Feel free to debate me on this one, but I think we can all agree that the new Orphion is more stylized, more cartoony. By default this means the old model was more faithful to real life. In that phrase I did not mention whether I thought a more realistic approach was good or bad. I just stated a fact.

I did a little hyperbole to emphasize the direction that's being taken. By no means do I think they're going to add a ultra-realistic cow with 1 billion polygons chewing on 4k hd grass, but it's undeniable that the new models for the passive mobs are more realistic. I mean, look at the grook I linked in my post. Now try comparing it with a chicken from normal Minecraft. The minecraft chicken is a goddamn blob. Is it a duck? Is it a chicken? God knows. Meanwhile the wynncraft grook actually has some semblance of anatomy. I feel that this is pretty cut and dry, but once again, feel free to debate.

I like the birds that they added in the update, I'm perfectly fine with those. I'm just not a fan of the reworked vanilla mobs.

Also, when you say:

Are you speaking on behalf of the Wynncraft team from back when they were putting together the old Orphion model?
It's actually a bummer that I can't find explicit credits for most of the art in Wynncraft. I don't even know if you were part of the wynn team back then.

These screenshots definitely make Orphion look way better. Still, these are static images. I had previously had trouble looking up gameplay for 2.1's nexus of light, but I did manage to find this video.
The video quality itself is crusty, but the animations they gave Orphion are actually amazing. I don't have any qualms with the bossfight itself.
Yet still, I do wish they had upgraded Orphion's old model instead of downright reworking it. The old model was undoubtedly more detailed. This isn't necessarily a quality, after all, sometimes less is more. But this is the Light Beast we're talking about. Orphion is currently infected by a parasite from dern, and the old model showcased these purple tumors protruding from his back. In a way, Orphion's raggedy look made some sense. So while the model required LOTS of polishing, I liked the direction it took.
Anyways, now that I've seen actual gameplay it's whatever. Orphion's fight is more than good enough. Everything I said still applies, though. I'll miss you, raggedy goofy-run Orphion.

Here's where I gotta disagree. Even if I came around to loving every single model this update brings, I still wouldn't like the direction Wynncraft's art is taking. Whenever I play modded minecraft, I only play vanilla like mods. There have been a handful of mods that I liked mechanically, but just because I thought that the models and textures for some content looked off from minecraft's style, I went ahead and uninstalled them. There's just something I find very off puting about some of the new animals, as stylized as they may be. Feel free to add custom mobs all you want, but please don't touch vanilla.

man i love yapping.
anyways i think that covers most of the comments in this thread

What I said already but might as well give a summary.
TL;DR: Stylized models are great, as long as they follow the vanilla aesthetic and aren't just turning them into marketable versions. Basically: strike the right balance. What is the right balance? You tell me. Sucks to suck.
And keep your filthy hands off my vanilla animals.

Young man, I think you forgot that old greg looked like grandma after drying in the sun. Take off those fucking eye lights that make him look like venom and we're golden. The animations are pretty great too.
Reworking greg so soon is questionable, but I do think the remodel is an upgrade. They made him more imposing. Now this is the "grandiose" I'm talking about.
Also, please keep that fucking picture of that rancid dog away from me. I want to punch him so bad it's unbelievable. I hope lil bro stays locked in the nexus of light for the foreseeable future.

 

Real life? Dude this is a minecraft server

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And yeah greg could be a little more imposing and scary since he looks like a pretty silly guy right now but everything else I disagree with tbh. Making stuff less vanilla just makes wynn more unique and interesting. The vanilla animals are fine for nostalgia but the new models are basically an objective improvement. I don't think that holding the game back because "oh it's not vanilla" is a good idea at all.

 

I do not like the font either ngl lol

 

They're both talking about the aim of models being realistic. That's not our aim. All models are stylized.

The old model was poorly made, objectively, because it was made with far worse tools. It would've been nigh impossible to do this. Further, his old model hardly conveyed his design and character. Scrapping it and replacing it with a better model is the obvious choice.

You are gaslighting yourself here or something. This was never a thing lmfao. The new model actually has the parasite visible on his body, the old one didn't.

Wynncraft is not a vanilla+ mod.

We're going to keep replacing vanilla models with our own custom ones that better fit the art style and theme of the game. You're just going to have to deal with this, plain and simple.

 

Common Deusphage W

 

what 'vanilla aesthetic'? the one from 14 years ago or the one now? because most of the new models would fit in well with the newer minecraft mobs.

the new model literally still has the parasite on him

 

Girlboss marshallah

The only thing i disagree with it that orphion doesnt have patterns on his thighs and on his belly sides

 

"We". Who is this "we"?
You may be able to speak on behalf of the content team of today, but where were you back when, say, raids were originally released?
Let me ask you a question. When did you join the Wynncraft content team? It's crucial to know when you began to get involved in Wynncraft's development.
(Also, of course all models are stylized. You can't make fully realistic models in minecraft, but you can take a more anatomically correct approach)

Bad, bad take. Look, limitations are one thing, but "tools" are the other.
Give Leonardo da Vinci a crooked old pencil and a piece of paper. Then trap a baby in an art studio, full of expensive equipment.
Leonordo would DEMOLISH that baby.

Deusphage, tell me, are you the one who made Orphion's new model? Are you the one who made his animations? Are YOU the one who designed Orphion and developed his character way back when??
Who knows. I sure don't.
Without knowing the team's intentions for Orphion's character, I simply cannot speak up.
I do think that the "Light Beast" would do better with a more complex and less simplified design, but that may not be what Orphion is at all.

Factually incorrect...
Not only do you seemingly not even play your own game, but you couldn't even bother to fact check yourself by looking up a single instance of Orphion's boss fight.

Image taken from this video.
The parasite even leaps out from said tumors once Orphion is downed...

The current "tumors" the new Orphion's model has look more like a friendship ring, at least from what I've seen.

Pretty metal design, huh? Definitely doesn't look like a parasite wound, though.

I gave you my opinion, then gave examples noting my preference for vanilla-styled graphics.
You then replied with a stamement.
Ok.

Now this is just immature, telling me to "deal with it".
I'm not here demanding anyone to change anything about Wynncraft. I'm here to have a discussion.
I do enjoy arguing, the back and forth can actually be enriching, sharing perspectives and whatnot.
Look, I may enjoy a little drama, but that is absolutely not what I'm doing in this thread.
This entire post was meant to share my opinion. I truly do have some qualms with modern Wynncraft, and I truly do wish they would've taken another direction with some art assets.

You keep speaking of this "we". You claim that the content team is going in a more stylized direction. Which is true. But it only was THIS update, 2.1, that they went overboard with it.
Orphion's old model was Wynncraft first big custom boss, right? That could explain why it was less cartoony and more realistic. They were still beginners.
However, the TNA boss shows that they had improved their craft. Compare Greg's 2.0 model with the 2.1 model. The old one is clearly still faithful to a skeleton's anatomy, despite being a great, polished model. It was a conscious decision to give Greg that human-like skull. The thing is, the design is still CLEARLY stylized. Look at his big ass ribcage. And yet, it doesn't shy away from a more realistic approach.
Mind you, 2.0 was also the update that added cartoony models like Captain Redbeard, Charon and Garoth's remodel. All remodels which I love. These goofier models co-existed perfectly with the more realistic Greg model. The old Orphion, as unpolished as he was, didn't necessarily look off-putting either. The textures they gave him did a good job of emulating the vanilla look.

Once again, I ask that the Wynncraft models, animations and their respective designs are all properly, publically credited.
I can't take one staff member's words as speaking for the entire team, both the current one and from the past.

The current "vanilla aesthetic". Look, let's imagine a reality where Wynncraft doesn't exist, and say the 2.1 bosses were a mod for minecraft.
I'd probably think they were the coolest shit. Their more complex appearence is justified, since they are big bosses. Likewise, the enderdragon also features a more complex model than the rest of minecraft.
The real qualm that I have is the passive mobs being so detailed.
Let's look at a few additions from modern minecraft.
The turtle, the goat, the sniffer, the frog, the strider...
They are all passive mobs that noticeably are more detailed than the old vanilla mobs, like the pig, chicken, cow, etc.
And yet, all these mobs perfectly co-exist.
The sniffer, for example, is really detailed. Maybe overly so. Its animations are also pretty amazing.
However, its body is still just a rectangle. It's a blob.
This is what I think makes those new mobs great.
Goats have appendages like their horns, frogs have detailed feet. But their main body is still a blob. So it looks great.

Referring to a real person as "girlboss" is actually insane + get yourself admitted to an asylum

 

my man, that's like, a primordial pouch, or something. i think you might be projecting here a little

anyway, he appears to have a "belly" here due to a weird animation thing. here's how he looks normally, it's just the area where his body blends into his hind legs

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the parasite's wrapped around his body. it makes more sense if you look at it sideways

it's kinda like... this. it makes more sense, the parasite is visibly attached to orphion and not like... inside of him, or whatever the old model was trying to portray

....????

 

Can we have a mod lock this thread please? It’s not productive and the OP is being toxic.

 

oh nvm I can see it. I think the old model had the parasite actually burrowing into Orphion's body, but this one also makes sense.

Nothing I did was with the intention of being toxic, but believe what you must. Punish me for disorderly conduct or whatever you deem fit, but leave the thread alone. I have learned a lot myself, and would like to learn more. Hoping someone comes forward and credits some of the art assets, I'd like to know who made them.

I was going to comment on the whole "girlboss" thing, but then I realized I might be coming off as too hostile. Therefore I did the clearly smartest thing and doubled down.
I don't actually think anyone should be in an asylum, though.
It sucks in here.

 

Deusphage can speak for the team, as she has been a major part of all decisions, for a long, time, at least since 1.20 iirc. She has also been a big part of decision making even for the ones she did not PERSONALLY DESIGN