Info Item Team Thread - Item/ingredient/major Id Changes, Updates & More

maybe I'm wrong, but won't this completely kill obli?

 

in all likelihood probably, but we're gonna wait for beta to gauge feedback on that one (as we are with most things)

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Another change from the hell-oiled machine:

Guardian
Guardian (major ID): 50% -> 20% of damage taken by nearby allies is redirected to you

 

just remove guardian and every wand at this point, why don't you

 

If you want a real answer, it's that no change exists in a vacuum, so trying to analyze this in the context of an otherwise unchanged meta is going to lead to wildly inaccurate conclusions. This is why we're pushing so many things before beta starts, so that we can get (and use) community feedback on stuff we've changed as well as what stays the same. If you're just looking to complain because you're unhappy with change or the possibility of meta shift/diversity, this is not the place to do that.

 

it’s more like extremely targeted nerfs at a game mode only a group of people enjoy with little to no regard to how it would affect them

edit: obviously this is done to “balance” wars but i think getting people who actually do wars to balance items which have a primary meta game centered around wars is a good idea, rather than relying on people who barely have war experience to do random nerfs without understanding anything

 

Shit guys they made a change without context time to quicksell every guardian in existence cause it is unusably bad now

 

Ya man you’re so right the IM’s totally thought “Hey guys we should nerf Guardian just to piss off warrers and only warrers because nobody else uses Guardian besides them right.”

 

based

 

fair enough, i admit it does sound like i’m saying that, but guardian isn’t an essential item in other gameplay, it’s pretty central to any competent war strategy with no replacement.

sure, it could be nerfed for general gameplay but that still brings me back to the point of the IMs having very little regard for the war community. even as a semi-significant portion of the endgame playerbase, it always seems wars are the last thing to be considered when game balance is applied

the war community is unironically one of the sweatiest and most dedicated groups of people still playing but it seems like every time their thoughts are not considered for balance

also guardian 50% -> 20% nerf is actually fucking huge. here's an example of why: an HQ tower does like 200k-250k dps starting, but if that's the upper limit of how much damage you can tank with current guardian, new guardian will only be able to help you tank 125-156.5k dps
(literally negligible)
ive been in wars that do like 700k-1m dps. you will absolutely not be able to do that if these changes are pushed

i'm not saying guardian doesn't deserve a nerf -- is it absurd? kind of. it allows a lot of HQs to be taken, but does it deserve such a harsh nerf? i don't think so. I think a 60% reduction in effectiveness is not particularly fun for the war meta.

 

This is not huge news but it is *something* at least, but

 

I get that Guardian is too strong in wars currently but you're forgetting that this also destroys very fun actual playstyles ("actual" because standing in wars doing nothing while getting healed isn't really a playstyle) like carrying glassy builds. I love helping people with bad gear to get good builds by helping them through The Hive and Legendary Island using Infernal Impulse + Strobelight + Guardian. I like actively trying to stay near glassy archers or shamans while fighting Orphion to protect them. This is Guardian's playstyle. This is what will be gone after Guardian's nerf. Might as well rename the major ID to "War Scream" and make it give +10% damage and +20% defence.
Have you not thought of simply nerfing the item instead of its major ID if you think it's too strong outside of wars? And in wars: Would it be that hard to recode Guardian so it redirects 50% dmg outside of them and 20% dmg in them?

Outside of wars Guardian isn't even too strong. Sure, it is pretty good at tanking but it literally is a tank mythic on the tank class. It gets rather low damage to compensate for it. If you still think that it's too strong in raids, LI, ... maybe simply lower its health boost?

 

What are ya whining about? Ever heard of the Circle of Fun? Short CoF, No? Basically it's something you enjoy and someone displeases it and thinks it's not suitable to have fun at this certain decree, so they decrease the level of your enjoyment of the inside game-element, so you can look up for other strategies to having fun, so they can decrease this level as well. And the circle goes on and on. Til everybody ends up with Morphsets, and then we call that having fun.

 

unbased changes

 

More like they're too ignorant to understand how important guardian is to warring because they don't play the game or at the very least participate in guild warring

On another note, I really don't like how warring is always the last thought in any of the CT/IM's heads when wynn is going through a big item change

 

...and it turns out to be 540/3 poison

 

guardian, my beloved

fr though, isn't the main point of guardian to tank? like that's literally the whole reason of why it's appealing in the first place. Tanking is a genuine playstyle that some people enjoy. Did it need a nerf? possibly yea, but a tanking playstyle should still be possible to some extent

 

actually, is there a reason eledefs go fwate as opposed to like etwfa or afwte or even most eledefs on top least eledefs at bottom like
moontower
Thunder Defense: 225
Water Defense: 125
Air Defense: 125
Earth Defense: 75
Fire Defense: 75

 

Cool stuff, I don't know if it makes a healthy impact though
The issue with guardian in my eyes has nothing to do with the major id's strength as a whole, and more to do with the fact that there isn't a single weapon in the game that can compare to it because of how much damage mitigation the major id grants. Even at 20%, it's still the best by far, outclassing everything by miles. It makes trying to build interesting war builds extremely unrewarding because nothing will ever be as good as just slapping guardian.

The mage changes are really good for allowing new healing meta and a variety of healing builds. Dps options are already plentiful. Would be nice to see some viable alternatives for tank builds as well at some point. Good direction though, so I'll take whatever I can get

 

is there a change to Cata? its on the changelog but its -1 -> -1

 

cope/mald tbh

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cata changes are super questionable, its essentially just a nerf with the context we have currently. maybe all daggers are getting nerfed because of some super cool assassin ability, but I dont know, man