Post 1.20.4 thoughts on Wynncraft

Alright boys, they did it.
Unironically, the Festival of Spirits introduced a new mechanic that Salted just didn't talk about:
Bloody dialog options.

The Festival NPC gives you some dialog options, basically exactly how I suggested it could be done.
Congrats Wynn, you're an actual RPG now. (Or at least a step closer to being one.)

 

haven't logged in yet but I saw some people mention it. This is HUGE, if this is used outside of the event and used effectively it could be the biggest change to quests maybe ever.

 

God bless our lord and savior and thanks for adding me into the reply because I would have never known otherwise <3

 

Dialogue options added im hearing? Ive been off wynn so I wouldnt know.

GG tho this thread definately helped push in the right direction imo.....

now to just wait on an official reply and a few more things to be FIXED.

 

This has been in the game for months, it's just the first NPCs who use it are in the festival of the spirit.
It's part of the reason they can't make auto dialog togglable.

 

I wonder how many people are still waiting for a developer response.

 

developer, admin or ct?

 

Me

 

The only bit I disagree with is making professions hard again. I mean, they are not hard, they are just tedious as heck to level up. I for one love love love this game's crafting system, but I can't be arsed to grind gathering skills for tens (if not some hundreds) of hours just to get to level 100 so I can make some shinies myself. The crafting grind (+ the ingredient one) is absolutely fine for me and is pretty well balanced though.

Other than that, I wholeheartedly agree with everything. I only haven't been putting more hours into this game because I'm pretty sure I'll burnout by taking profs to 60-70ish or by doing quests at level 80+. Granted, I am the odd one as I prefer outright grinding mobs instead of doing quests, but some are very important as they unlock some cool features. There's also the fact that (imo) Wynn lacks meaningful, repeatable late game content unlike Path of Exile and Warframe, which is what makes me (generally speaking) stick to games in the first place.

 

I’m not quite sure if this guide is outdated, but according to it Woodworking requires 16.7 stacks of royal bug blood to go from level 90 to 103, and another 7 stacks of it to go from 100-103….

16.7 STACKS WITH XP BOMBS!!!

I don’t mean to be dramatic or say you can’t enjoy professions, but the crafting and ingredient grind is absolutely not balanced and literally the worst part about professions. There’s nothing more discouraging spending countless hours and emeralds crafting a million useless items that you end up throwing away. Good crafting systems shouldn’t force you to craft something you don’t need, especially not at such large quantities. Not even Hunted Mode, ingredients, or guild territories give crafting xp bonuses, so it’s much harder to mitigate the grind besides bombs. Which even the hardest of prof tryhards have admitted was Pay to Win (Especially with the Bomb Bell).

I wouldn’t care if gathering stayed the same or even got harder if crafting levels were made redundant, because I would only need enough materials and resources to craft the few things I’d actually want. At the end of the day it’s not a big deal because you can always just buy crafted items. But they frankly never should have been added to the game because it just makes obtaining crafted items way worse than it should be and makes Wynncraft more pay to win.

 

When exactly are we getting that official response...?

 

dunno? @Hams Is this still being thought of?

 

While I do agree with the point you're making, RBB is quite literally the worst possible ingredient you could use for your example lol. The 23.7 stacks needed to go from 90-103 is less than 45 minutes of grinding RBB without totems or dloot. Alternatively you could buy the 23.7 stacks for around 3le.

 

I’ll give you that one but even in the scenario that the ingredient is available it’s tedious af to sit and wait to craft all of those items. And a crafting profession requires around 400 to 600 crafts to fully level up even with XP bombs. Plus I didn’t take into account the amount of materials needed, which would be even more le and time. Doubled if we aren’t using xp bombs.

I guess I could’ve used a better example, but on the flip side it also demonstrates that even the relatively easier ones are still tedious and unnecessary af from just making crafting levels redundant.

 

it only takes like 400 crafts if you're going way above the intended levels professions were meant to be trained to, tbh
i do agree with a few of your points though

 

Do you mean above intended as in above level 100? Because it takes significantly less crafts to go from level 100 to 103 and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to shoot for level 100 since most endgame builds rely on gear from the 90 to 100 level range. And remember that the bulk of the crafts are with xp bombs too, so you’re really talking about 600 to even 800 crafts.

 

oh by fully level up i thought you meant gain one level
600-800 crafts to fully level up a profession is nothing from my perspective, but i probably don't have the best take on this considering 131-132 scribing was over 1k crafts and it seemed reasonable enough lol

 

Yes absolutely, sorry about the delay.

 

Hi it is Hams again!
​

We have spent some time reviewing the feedback, and have put together a reply for you all!

I will preface this by saying again we really appreciate the responses and feedback, we share the same passion for the game and we can take some time to explain some of the changes we made to Wynncraft in this thread. Reflecting what was said we tried to take a look back at those features and how we communicated them to you With the hope they will make more sense now, if you have any comments or feedback feel free to let us know, this thread will not be locked.

Also a very important thing to note, we are always striving to improve and alter Wynncraft to give the best experience and be the best it can be, however we can’t tackle everything at once so any mention of improvements is not an active promise to be done in the immediate future. This doesn’t mean it’s not a priority for us, we just have to be realistic with our capabilities.

We also would like to apologise for the delay, we have been testing and fixing a lot of issues with the release of the event.

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About the dialogue system​

The dialogue system is central to the way Wynncraft plays. It presents a considerable challenge to design a system that is intuitive and works for everyone. The old way of delivering dialogue had some notable flaws, like the game at many times bombarding players with too much dialogue too fast. With the new system we wanted to make dialogue clearer and allow you to experience the story at your own pace. The new system also allows us to develop new features, like the dialogue options you might have noticed in the Festival of the Spirits!

To explain some of the thought process as to why certain things are as they are, it has a lot to do with how Minecraft works as a game. We can’t detect when players press specific buttons, only if they are for example crouching. Without the delay between messages, players would accidentally skip multiple messages due to the length of a human pressing shift. There were other options, like right-clicking and using the F-key. However, those introduced other problems. Right-clicking would make fighting when dialogue is open very awkward and using the F-key in our opinion would be a worse option and potentially limit us if we wanted to add a new feature to that button in the future.

We acknowledge that there are changes some people might find to be negative. We will never be able to make a system that is perfect for everyone and compromises will have to be made. However, that does not mean we do not want to improve upon what we have. We’re open to feedback, and finding solutions to problems.

During the beta, we asked for feedback and one thing that was requested was a dialogue history. We added one, but since we were so close to the update it was implemented in a way that was not particularly user friendly but instead was faster to implement.

We believe that the new dialogue system overall represents a positive change and improvement over the old system, however we recognise some features are currently frustrating such as shift clicking, dialogue history and having slowness, we are going to review this feedback and hopefully improve the dialogue system to be more user friendly in the future!

About the gaps in content
​

We’re very very aware of all the gaps in content that Wynncraft suffers from. This is something that the Content team is working on constantly. Over the last couple of years we had some significant improvements made to our quest system and our capabilities to make better content increased hundredfold. It therefore became quite clear we needed to revisit old and outdated content to improve them and keep everything up to a good standard.

However, the big thing about all the content gaps is that we’re always working on the game, but can only work so fast and produce so much in one update. Every update we’re addressing content issues. For example, last updated we added discoveries to every area in Gavel. There is no area or level range that we don’t care about, we desperately want to make sure everywhere has quality quests, discoveries and places to explore, all we ask for is patience as we make these things for you to enjoy.

About guilds​

Ah guilds, this is going to be a longer talking point than the others. Before we jump into the complex array of topics surrounding guilds, it’s really important to know that we’re actively working on guilds. We’re adapting every patch with significant input from members of the community who participate in them. Our devs are actually in direct contact with community members while trying to find a balance for guilds.

Spoiler: Salted's thought about it

Guilds aren't yet at a spot where we're fully happy with, and we know the community also thinks the same.

The issues at hands are a bit more complex than they may appear.


One of the goals of the system since its inception was to let players make their own story with its systems through politics. Sometimes that means a huge alliance would appear and control huge sections of the world for a long period of time.

And even though that period may not be the most fun for most, we expected the dissatisfaction to be aimed towards specific guilds and encourage wars and new alliances. The last part isn't happening as much as we had hoped.

This political meta is part of the issue. Huge alliances appear so powerful that it leads to other guilds to just accept them as the de-facto winners. Because of this, their positions are even more secure and they don't even have to fight to keep their empire.

This is why people think of guilds as "attacking vs defending" guilds. We've never really seen it like that. From our point of view, there are successful guilds that maintain their claim through power, diplomacy and alliances, and there are the guilds that don't.


There is a few ways we see to improve this, here's three:


- Makes warring rewarding enough to encourage people to attack the huge empires more often

This was our goal for the past few guild updates, such as the season system and the territorial bonuses. The season system was the most successful and did reward smaller guilds much more than before, but it's still not quite enough. There is also a lack of

personal rewards from warring which I think we should add. Lastly, there's also a lack of immediate rewarding feedback after warring. For example, a guild with 0 territories will gain a minimum of 100 SR per war because of the attacking SR reward, boosted SR reward and the 10m protection. But I've rarely seen

people mention this, instead focusing on the specific 40 SR per war reward.


- Reduce the influence of allies

This one is incredibly tricky. Before 1.20, sub-guilds were pretty much needed to do anything war-related. In 1.20 we decided to embrace alliances as an inevitable aspect of guilds, and we want to be careful to not overly nerf meaningful allies to the point that the new

meta is to stack 10 sub-guilds for each guild. Something that may sound counter-productive would be to buff guild towers in a specific way so that smaller guilds can manage to control a few territories without losing them instantly. We've hesitated to do this because

it may not be enough to disrupt the political meta and just lead to yet again buffing defenders and discouraging guilds from attacking even more.


- Increase the amount of players who wars

The more players war, the more crowded it will become and the more they'll have to attack new territories and start having to attack guilds with huge claims. If this is consistent enough, big guilds will have to use more and more

man power into reclaiming their lost territory and may eventually have to simply reduce the size of their claim. This could be achieved by making tower fights more enjoyable, and it is something we're looking to do in the future.


Something I've read tons is to "buff attacking SR". We've avoided doing that so far because really, every guild is an attacking guild in a way. What we're afraid buffing attacking SR will do is just lead to every guild warring in FFA areas like before, big or small.

And since big guilds have more active players, they'd end up gaining SR at a faster rate than smaller guilds just like before, except that now you have to play way more to keep up with them. We'd much prefer if people fought for real areas instead of the

community-approved FFA areas, and that is why we've generally attempted to buff guilds with small claims so far.


We aren't quite finished with guilds and would like to do more in the future, but because of the current size of the dev team (2 people) we can't put all of our resources into it everytime. Right now we have to put some more work on an unannounced 1.21 feature

as we're already a little bit behind schedule, so we will not be able to work on guilds straight away. We're still always reading feedback, and I encourage y'all to spend time writing up proper detailed feedback threads about guilds.

Guilds are an active work in progress, and if you have any feedback on Salted’s thoughts, we welcome respectful and constructive feedback, please remember that the most helpful feedback is those that detail why you feel a certain way, and what changes can be made to remedy those feelings. As with any feedback and feature integration, implementation of changes is not always instant.

About professions​

Professions in general are something we really want to improve, due to time constraints they have slipped away from being our top priority at the moment but still remain a strong point of focus for us. We will welcome any suggestions from the community about them.

The addition of Gathering XP armor and accessories was done to counter balance to perceived difficulty and feedback we received about professions, once we can make professions our top priority again we might revisit this aspect and balance it with any new features added to the game, but at this time they are necessary to ease the curve of grinding professions.

About raids​

We’d like to clarify something about raids that might be a misconception:The features recently added to raids aren’t being made by the same team that is currently fixing raid bugs, and the two are entirely independent of each other. We aren’t taking time off from fixing raid bugs to add these new features; both are being handled by different people in different teams. Both are a priority for us, we totally understand how frustrating bugs are and trust us when we say we hate bugs too!

About Challenge modes​

We haven’t run into a great challenge mode idea yet, but are really open to add more if we ever do. We absolutely do want to expand those challenges. Hunted could get some improvements, but we would like to improve PvP before. We also would eventually want to add a specific Hunted-only server, but that’s not something that is set in stone yet.

About Chests​

The use of unleveled chests was never intended to be used as a strategy to obtain good gear easily. The changes recently introduced were to restore chests to how they were originally intended to be used. In the future we would like to make some loot running changes, but as with a lot of things in this thread it will require some dev time which is precious for other features. We are also aware there are some left and we will look into fixing them.

About mob grinding and totems​

There were some issues with totems which we recognised:
They had a big hit on performance, they were abusable by baiting mobs away from their spawn region into an empty region and grinding them alone and efficiently. If you placed a totem too fast, it may have missed mobs and ended up less effective randomly. It wasn't very consistent unless you knew how they worked.

The new totem uses mob spawning points instead. Which means you can't bait mobs out of their region to spawn more of them, and totems are more consistent overall. We did a lot of tests with spawn rate and the new totems still more than doubled mobs spawn rates (assuming you kill them fast enough).

Like unleveled chests, totems were never intended to be as efficient as they were for loot grinding. The changes we made were done to bring totems more in line with the original intention which is to gain XP.

About the economy​

Balancing the economy's incomes and outgoings is always a challenging task. The emerald pouch wasn’t added to fix the economy, these things take too much time to use as a band-aid like that. We actively track the economy of Wynncraft and the emerald pouch was added as a feature, not meant to curb any economic shifts though we are aware it will have at least a small impact over time

Regarding the lack of emerald generation opportunities​

If the real issue is that there is no specific activity that generates emeralds, we are not sure if we should ever add that. Adding an activity that generates good emeralds in the late game will lead to everyone doing that activity and decreasing the value of emeralds in the endgame, upping all prices. The deflation people have seen lately was mostly caused by an abusable bug that let people spawn mythics very quickly. The economy in general is tricky to predict or fully control, even by the admins, but we can at least monitor it and provide solutions once issues present themselves.

~~~~~~~~~~~~​

Ok that was quite a long response, again thank you for your patience in waiting for a reply. While we realise we’re not able to magically fix all the issues everyone has with Wynncraft please understand that we’re always working to improve the game.

We sincerely hope that this thread will help clear up where we’re at with certain features and while you may not all agree on the points made here, we hope that you will at least understand our thinking behind certain things and in fact we often agree with the community on certain topics. We appreciate all the passion and feedback and please remember to be respectful and polite when giving feedback.

Thanks all for reading and we look forward to reading your thoughts!

 

didn't read + you fell off + L