Post 1.20.4 thoughts on Wynncraft

I would call the 1.18>1.19 updates a major touch up, if they removed crafting and gathering from it I wouldn't exactly call that a few "touchups", that sounds like a major revision to me considering the first half (maybe third) of the tutorial used to be about crafting and gathering.

 

this thread is funni to read the comments of
but given its slightly on topic
1.20 warring was made a system too complex for its own good to the point of it being "un-balancable", while I don't like change I adjust to it and have, but 1.20 just made warring riddled with exclusivity and elitism, guilds needed change yet they failed to listen to the people who played the game. This I feel only reflects again and again 8/9 months on, lots of changes are made with their own vision in mind which is fair for it in the end is their game, but it can be their undoing, they listen to community points only when it suits them and ignore over arching issues and distract us with minor fixes or temporary fixes. They cant go back now, large games never revert just because players complain, so I can only hope they work on making what they have any better than the state its in right now rather than adding more and more stuff to over complicate the yarn of content they've tangled up and got wet.

 

No offense but this all sounds like just some dreams that can't be achieved

 

Imo the removal of scrap and durability would completely negate the purpose of the entire item system. If I can craft op items tailored to exactly the kind of playstyle I want, then I have no real use for the normal item system, including most mythics. Unless ingredients and crafted items as a whole got a harsh nerf I can't see how the removal of scrap/dura would balance them at all. Scrap and dura (tho I would definitely tweak the dura formula) is super necessary to balance crafteds against the normal item system.

 

i dont think anyone actually says this - its moreso stuff past 110/120 people are upset about iirc

id say most people who tryhard profs are generally of the opinion that it should be easier up to lvl 110

 

I personally still like the new system, but given the massive disparity between parties clearly something needs to be done about it.

*That's a little over dramatic.*

When we all thought Gavel Reborn would fix Gavel's biggest problem, haha.

Can't do much about that untill we have an actual storyline, and the content creators can't do much about that untill the rest of the game is fixed, as you mention below.

Not sure what you wanted to say here, that's just kindof a product of the CT being busy on other areas of the game, like the desert, and savanah, and mesa, and-

I'm not into guids so... skip.

Yes.

You literally counterpoint you own point in this one lol. As someoneelse on another thread said (I don't remeber the name, and I'm too lazy too look, if you made the following point first feel free to let me know and I'll add credit lol.) Proffesions should be more accesable rather than less, making them faster to level was neccesary to achieve this.

However there is a small percentage of people *cough people who leveled profs while they where still ass* who will use the latter point to (irrationally) try to justify wasting ungodly amounts of time on profs.

Nobody cares that you got high level profs before ProfXP armor, have a badge or some shit, it's better this way.

Basic logic says yes.

Sure.

Lootrunning is a clusterfuck indeed, a mindnumbing open->close->open->close->teleport yeah you get it. Made even worse by the toxic af discord and loot quality (remove loot quality BTW).

We've needed an alternative to lootrunning for a long time, and not just for Mythics. The forgery was a start but, only Mythics (and certain legendarys). Mob grinding was P2W, but they apparently nerfed mob totems, I don't know how or why but people are complaining about it so... I'm asuming it was because of this? Anyway mob grinding needs to be made into an alternative (without being P2W ofc). You could have things like the forgery chest and raid chest at the end of LI and dungeons but dropping normal everyday items, IDK.

Yes plz.

Can someone tell me how they were nerfed please? :D

Never was a fan of the emerald pouch idea but whatever. Not enough knowledge on the current economic situation to comment on that last part.

This is a problem?

 

Have you considered that crafted items should be better then most regular items? From a time and resource perspective, the investment into making them ready for endgame use is significantly higher and despite what you said, they're still universally worse than mythics (close but definitely not better) for combat. The only use for crafted items right now is for loot quality and gathering xp stats.

But the balance of stats isn't what matters here, why is there a problem with the meta shifting to crafted gear? Lootrunning is now the best source of emeralds, why should it also be the best source of equipment too? The meta has been stagnant in this game for years, why is there an issue with changing things up and making the building process interesting again? It's not like old builds will stop working, they would just be less optimal.

 

this 100%. Part of being an older player of wynn is the nostalgia. I still remember falling into the basement trap on the emerald trail when I first played (idk the year but it was pre texturepack) and wandering around ragni and nivla looking at the little builds and caves.

 

Unfortunately in order for durability to be removed the ingredients would have to be severely nerfed. Several reasons:

1) Power creep in general would rise significantly if the meta was all crafted items which are currently more powerful than most regular items.
2) Ingredients are balanced around their durability penalty. If that penalty suddenly disappears then the most used recipes will all be overpowered combinations that aren't feasible right now because they're all 1 dura recipes.
3) You may be right about mythic weapons being more powerful than crafted weapons (I haven't looked at crafted baselines since str/dex changes), but crafted armor is so obscenely powerful with the right recipes that any regular armor (mythics included) would be overshadowed.
4) In order to use really powerful endgame crafted items, many players would have to spend lots of time leveling their professions or buy the items from other players for what would probably be multiple stacks of le. Many players don't want to do professions and don't have the money to buy those items.
5) It's changing the entire system to basically disregard all of the item team's work on carefully balancing the items that already exist. I personally really enjoy the current system and would hate to see it overshadowed by crafted items.

I'm sure there are more reasons than the ones I've provided, but I really believe that just removing durability without extreme balance changes would be a bad thing. I also think the state of lootrunning is a separate problem that can be addressed without elevating crafteds to be above regular items.

 

Powercreep is a weak argument, mythics are already so far beyond what the scope of other items are and have been like that for 5+ years now.

Ingredients being balanced around their durability would be an issue, except the solution would just to make it so you have crafting points, each ingredient has a point cost instead of durability cost and as long as you're above 0 remaining points, you can make the item. You could even add multipliers for lower point cost crafts so weak items would be balanced out a little bit, or additive point items would become more valuable. That's a really easy problem to solve. As for needing to do the grind, yes, you would have to do the grind, or, you could pay someone to craft your stuff, like how most other games work. The reason why crafted items are expensive now is because only a neiche group of people are making them and lootrunning gear is in high demand, if all gear had a high demand there would be much more profit motive to move towards crafting professions for poor players which was the whole point of crafting in the first place. Things that cost many stacks of LE right now would cost a whole lot less if more people were able to make them.

And the big one, the item team. For all their hard work, they're doing a terrible job and are being sabotaged by an awful item system and community who completely against any kind of change even if it means improvement. Despite what some people might say, the item teams goal shouldn't be to do what the community wants, the most vocal people in the community have far to much interest and investment for any of their feedback they provide to be useful. They're also interested in preserving the meta because it means they don't have to adapt to changes in the game. Everything the item team does is to service the players who would be hit the hardest if any radical changes were made so of course that change will never come. If the item team was around in its current capacity pre-gavel the armor and powder changes never would have happened and we would still be running around in full champion gear. The item team doesn't exist to keep balance, they exist to keep things the same, if you need proof of that just look to the tri-element changes which were proposed and immediately shut down.

 

durability is better than a crafting points system since you can tailor it to your own personal preferences. with durability you can choose how much you have, if you want you can push a recipe to be stronger at the cost of having less dura, you can, or you can scale a recipe back a bit in order to have more dura. a crafting points system would just delete the choice, which would be rather lame imo

is the current dura system perfect? nah ofc not, but i dont think abandoning it is the right step

 

hi, the item team's goal is to ensure that the item pool (and a few other item-related things) is balanced, as well as keep it somewhat fresh by adding new items every so often. nothing more, nothing less. i don't really know where you've gotten the idea that we aim to change as little as possible or that anyone giving feedback only does so for selfgain- your proof was canceled, yes, but essentially done over in the form of the endgame armour revamp that happened spread over 1.19 and its patches. if you genuinely feel like nothing has changed in regards to items and that's our fault, please elaborate because we'd be doing something terribly wrong lmao

also wtf is up with wanting to un-diversify build options by making over 90% of current items irrelevant? crafted items can exist in the (eternally somewhat overpowered) state and still have their own unique use without clashing with normal items solely because of the effective use limit per visits between blacksmiths. don't get me wrong, the durability system is pretty flawed in being way too quick to go down from certain sources, scrap having extremely wack numbers in both spending and acquiring, the point of stat decay starting likely still being too harsh and whatnot, but durability in itself is honestly the most important thing when it comes to crafteds and i can't see taking it away to have any positive effects for general class building- just seems like asking for something entirely different for the sake of having something entirely different (note: this is also part of why the elemental revamp you mentioned failed).

 

Anybody who has seen the series I am currently working on knows that I 100% love challenges. I second adding a new challenge mode, and would LOVE a challenge mode leaderboard. The ironman gamemode is copied from runescape, and the runescape hiscores has an entire separate section for the different ironman accounts so I feel it makes sense to add separate leaderboards for them.

 

After reading every single reply here I'll admit I was wrong on these things and also wanted to maybe back up a few more thoughts:

Quests:
- By 'endgame quest/content" I simply mean a questline that ends the LORE of Wynncraft. A quest explaining the motives of the dernic parasite and who is really behind its actions. The olm, and how it effected Wynn for centuries. When you really think about it, stories have many chapters or parts to them. It feels to me Wynncraft still hasn't even finished one after so many years!
- As above mentioned I want the dialogue system completely reworked or reverted BECAUSE it gave slowness, having to crouch was a lot of extra work and not needed, you cannot deal damage or use movement spells but still can take projectiles to the face.. the glitches are abundant and hopefully fixing them makes a better system and i am excited to see that day come but I left NOW because that is the way it is now.

Guilds:
- Guilds are a mess of a situation because the developers made it too complicated. A lot of people here are posting about the simple wars in 1.19 and how they were nice for people with deep pockets and just for a new player to the game. An improvement on that system would be nice.
- Mega alliances... IDK.
- rework a rewards system, by all means cosmetics are cool but they are not worth 20 stacks in consumables and 30 hours a week of warring. Give me something worth my time.

Professions:
- simply put: I did not mean to say people who invested more time into profs should be worshipped log gods, All I'm asking for is a small reward or badge for those players and to move on and make professions more engaging, interesting, faster for levels 1-110.

Raids, Challenge Modes, and Lootrunning:
- raids need less bugs and more replayability please.
- more challenge modes and a leaderboard please.
- more alternatives to lootrunning please.

Other than that I really just want small updates from devs/CT in a more formal letter/forum and NOT just a discord message like "yeah we are adding SUPER COOL shit!" ... that isn't really anything? and tells nothing..? Maybe small teasers and FREQUENT ones. Not just something 2 weeks before a large update.

 

Great followup post Travis, I agree with basically all of this here ^


also since lootrunning and the removal of unlevelled chests has been discussed a bit, I'm getting flashbacks to 2013 times where there was only one good endgame grindspot and 18 servers, meaning it was really hard to optimally grind solo. Would something like "5 different people can loot a chest and THEN it becomes looted" solve the problem or just cause more of a balance headache? Still wouldn't solve the issue of lootrunning not being super engaging.

 

I got the idea that you want to change as little as possible from the fact that basically nothing has fundamentally changed in the past 4 years and almost every new item added is serving an existing, already meta item. Maybe it's from the fact that there have been approximately zero changes to how builds are made since Gavel which is strange because the build system is completely unintutive. For some reason, instead of addressing and fixing by far the biggest issue with the game, you all are perfectly intent on leaving the core systems untouched and unsimplified because you don't want to anger the most committed players who don't want change. Like I said before, you're having these balance conversations with the group of people who are the least likely to be interested in change, I'm not surprised the item system has grown stagnant.

It's not that nothing has changed in terms of base line stats, you change those all the time, but the fact remains that 90% of the item pool is still completely useless at level, mythics remain horribly unbalanced because people want them to stay high in value as if it's a good idea for the rarest items by a factor of close to 1 000 000 are also by far, unequivocally the strongest. The only viable builds in the game are pure DPS builds, even when you're playing with others, because almost no class has any ability to buff based on item stats and those who do (mage mainly) don't want that anyways since the tradeoff of health for damage just isn't worth it. Mobility is incredibly important in this game since getting out of/avoiding chain attacks is critical to survival, yet there's tonnes of items with huge speed debuffs in exchange for defense or health regen which is almost never a good choice. There are also tonnes of completely useless substats, thorns, reflection, soulpoint regen, and almost every item has over half their stats as dead stats. It's like you design items so they can be used in multiple builds, which is cool except that 99% of the time only one build will actually make good use of the item and all the extra stats you added just sit there and clutter the damage calculations.

As for build diversity, I guess there are a lot of builds, it's a real shame that almost every build anyone who doesn't come onto the forums for help would make is absolute garbage because again, the system and process with coming up with a build is garbage and as they say, garbage in garbage out. There's a reason why Morph is probably the single most popular build and is the go to recommendation for new players, it's because it's the only build which actually makes sense to someone who's not hardcore into crunching numbers. You also only unlock its potential at level 100 which is not great considering it's the only good casual build and you've left them high and dry for the first 99 levels. If this were a rougelike, I would say it's brilliant because there's a lot of diversity with the items and you work with what you get under pressure, but it's not, it's an MMO where you have no pressure and all the resources you could possibly want. That design just doesn't fly, the focus should be on investment rather then complexity and it just isn't because once you have an item, it's already perfect. The time tradeoff of trying to lootrun for specific gear doesn't make sense so it's only a way to make money to buy new gear, not a way to actually just get new gear.

Crafting equipment is ultimately useless because the potential benefits for normal use will never, ever outweigh the massive issues that come alongside it, not just durability, but degradation, SP adddition and the crafting stat inconsistency. That's not even the issue though, basically nobody is using crafted items because it's not worth the hundreds of hours of leveling and subsequent hours of research and mostly arbitrary calculation to come up with a recipe to craft... something worse and less reliable then an item you could get off the market for 10EB... That's not good balance, it's honestly quite horrible and it's not a fix which can be made just by shuffling a few numbers around.

As for them existing and not being OP, I agree, but they should still be stronger then the items you can buy for 10EB on the market because the amount of effort you need to go through to get them is astronomically higher. Again, it takes hundreds of hours leveling up your profession levels to the point where they're actually usable, if you spent that time lootrunning with a good loop there's almost a 100% chance your return would be significantly higher and you would be in a better place and even once your professions are leveled, lootrunning is still always the better option, especially now since it just got buffed.

As for asking for something different for the sake of being different, at least regarding durability, that's ironic considering crafted items are the only ones in the game with it. I'm not asking for them to be different, I'm asking for them to be the same, because durability makes them entirely useless outside of activities where the durability doesn't matter. Expanding past durability though, yes, I actually am asking for items to be different, not for the sake of being different, for the sake of being better. This games issue is that it can't give compelling rewards to challenges because there's no item players actually want besides emeralds and maybe powders. What I want is a system which is intuitive with built in progression so investing resources into specific items is possible and rewarding and a system where running in a loop thousands of times to get chests isn't the only way to get money because games should be fun, not tedious and repetitive. It would also be nice if defenses were in line with attack so PVP wasn't just a competition to see who can land a spell on the opponent first. I really don't think asking for a sensible build system should be considered asking for too much.

The current item system worked back when Gavel first came out, but time hasn't been kind to it. Nobody had any issues burning everything to the ground for the sake of improvement when Gavel rolled up, I don't see why it's suddenly become such a massive issue now.

Adding this on later, you're talking up build diversity but the strategy and playstyle of almost every build is the same, the difference between hitting things fast and slow isn't a meaningful so there's really only a few builds per class which actually present viable and unique playstyles, most of which normal players will never experience because a normal person can't be bothered to figure how to spec into a specific playstyle, they just spam click and do spells when they have mana. You guys keep trying to add new viable playstyles and there have been lots of cool ideas, especially with fabled items like the riding boots, but you always stop short of making the items actually good or meta. Best example is riding boots, they're a super unique playstyle idea yet nobody uses them because they're way, way too weak. It's such an obvious thing to see, yet nothing has been done about it for years.

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Durability is the sole reason why crafted items aren't more used and no matter how much you buff crafted item stats, it'll always be an issue. Nobody wants their gear to degrade and nobody wants to worry about constantly upkeeping their stuff when grinding. I'm not saying a point system is the best fix, I don't know what is because I never would have dug this hole for myself in the first place, but the one issue you pointed out about choice could easily be resolve with the suggestion I gave of having leftover point based bonuses that you either get or could chose to spend on different things, like attack speed, or powder slots or multipliers which don't take up crafting slots. I would argue that would give you far more choice while also removing durability.

 

1) Look at what it has now. Now imagone it had the same amount but it will be ended.
2) Ultimate SD for Light forest kind of explains
3) It will be probably "I am a primordial force this is what I do" or "I want power" anyways


Also my own rant:
Afaik the chat logs now explode, because after every line the chat gets copy-pasted again and again and again. It doesn't seem like a big issue, but when you want to get something from it (wiki, mod stuff I assume), it is quite annoying.

 

The Dern Beast sent it there, I don't think it needs any ulterior motives. Plus I don't think it's as intelligent as Bak'al who could actually question the beast's orders

Also not really true

"???: Balance shall become a thing of the past."
"???: The world is crumbling from imbalance. Soon I shall bring it to the path of purity."

"[4/7] Bak'al: There is nowhere left for you fools to run. Now witness as the will of my master purges this province for good."
"[7/7] Bak'al: And now, Ragni is left defenseless. This land will be purified, just like the rest."

The Dern Beast wants to establish purity in the world by eradicating the Light and the balance between the two forces. I assume it wants peace, since if there's only one force that rules over the entire world (the Darkness in this case) there is no conflict and so no need for bloodshed or destruction. Bak'al also mentions that his master's (Dern Beast) will is to purify and purge the land. So that's its motive.

 

...So it's "I want power"? You can fluff it up all you want, but it basically just means "I want power". If it was actually about achieving peace then the Dern beast could just concede and let the light take over everything, which would end the conflict and allow the Dern beast to go on a hard earned vacation or something. That would pretty much guarantee peace, if that was its goal. It wants "purity", as long as its purity of Darkness. That either means it either wants dominion over the world or it basically just needs to spread Darkness, despite that not being the most effective way to achieve peace, which would fit pretty well into "I am a primordial force this is what I do" category.