Post 1.20.4 thoughts on Wynncraft

The quest book telling you what to do isn’t an excuse for the dialogue being harder to access. If I want to read back the dialogue easily, I should be able to. I could make exactly the same arguments against shift over right click. “Could right clicking be better? Yes. Is changing it necessary? Debatable.” That doesn’t mean anything. It’s about whether the good outweighs the bad. Besides, it’s not like being able to skip dialogue is mutually exclusive with leaving it in chat when you don’t, so really the only argument keeping dialogue in your chat is the spam, in which case it’s far more likely that you’ll want to have the quest dialogue in your chat rather than other messages. Even then, your previous chat messages will be a flick of the scroll wheel away, a luxury now removed from quest dialogue. You can’t reasonably say that quick access to your previous chat messages (which are probably irrelevant anyway) is more important than quick access to the quest dialogue. If you’re complaining about it clogging up your chat, they could always just post the entire dialogue in chat when you hold shift to skip and then allow you hold shift slightly longer or press shift again to delete it from the chat like it does for single lines of dialogue right now. The benefit is everyone who wants to read back dialogue after skipping through it can do so at the cost of of half a second of holding shift for anyone who really doesn’t want their chat clogged. It just seems like you’re sacrificing chat history when that’s really not necessary for much of anything.

 

when the clashers are clashing
???
the royals are clashing

 

It's not even harder to access though? Unless you mean previous dialogue, which is the only issue. Which only really comes up if you leave during a quest. (and even then it's probably deleted)

If you mean was it capable of being better? If so no it wasn't. Right clicking required you right clicking an actual NPC. Which Sometimes you were in the unfortunate position of you couldn't do that. Which is why shifting is actually better.

Which the shifting does.
Pro's : You can now skip nearly all dialogue in the game (outside of a couple dungeons and a few occasional lines.
You don't get an entire chat worth of dialogue sometimes.
If you want a break without doing /class go in to a dialogue. Congratulations, you now can't be hurt.

Con's. Can't see previous dialogue easily
SLIGHTLY slower skipping time.

What?

.... Your argument's gone out the window got hit by a train and somehow gone on to another planet.
I hate how much my chat got spammed by quest dialogue with the old version that I want to have it more than other messages? What logic is that

I get a choice between scrolling through god knows how much dialogue to see messages. Or a chat with 0 spam from dialogue so I can see all messages. I pick the 0 spam

I mean it's pretty easy to read quest dialogue without skipping it so I do have quick access to it. I don't get your argument for it. Anyone who's skipping dialogue probably has read it all before. (or genuinely cares so little about the dialogue they don't bother)

At that point why skip through it? I'm being honest here. But skipping through dialogue to read it in the history is kinda backwards. Why not just read it in the safety of the NPC chat, where you know, you can't get hit by mobs?

General chat messages Party messages. Trade market notifications Party finder Guild messages. PM's.

Also saying it now, please quote your messages. Walls of text are annoying to read to the point i'm not gonna bother replying if that's the next reply you do.

 

I'll be honest, I disagree with a large majority of this and I'll of course explain why. However, I do absolutely agree with the things you say regarding quests entirely. I can't really argue any of those points. New challenge modes are always cool too. While I don't think raids should be entirely removed from objectives, they are buggy at times and I cannot argue that either. With that being said:

For guilds, you mention there being no reward for warring, and as a more "casual" player, I see no issue with having the payoff of investing time and resources into warring being boosts to leveling, professions, and more of the sort. I wish there was more payoff, for sure, but those are clearly rewards that are worth it to an extent, or else people wouldn't use them

For profs, as someone not competitive for leaderboards, I really like the additions of gxp armor and whatnot. Though, I don't use it, it's there if I want to finish leveling my gathering profs. While still a grind, it's much more doable while trying to balance my time outside of Wynncraft. In your traditional MMO game, the grinds are very healthy, but the large majority of Wynncraft's player base is very casual, surprisingly enough, and those are the people the game is tailored around in general.
If you're worried about your work being less of an achievement, that's a conflict you need to figure out with yourself. I don't think anyone's reason for doing something should be so they can flex rather than to genuinely feel proud and happy about their accomplishments alone. I don't think the game needs to be balanced around an egotistical mindset.
(And I still do not think that any sane person will take the time to grind past 110 on their profs, even with xp gear and boosts, etc. So your achievements aren't really invalidated, in my opinion, at least)

For lootrunning, unleveled chest runs are not intended by any means. However, I'm not going to say I didn't enjoy them. Less so due to crowding and more so because it gave me more reason to explore the world and spend hours and hours looking for even a couple random chests I maybe haven't found yet in some obscure area. I'd love client side chests, there's issues with that. I'd love all chests to just scale to your level, there's issue with that too. I don't think it's much of an issue, really.
The world is not in 2016 anymore, but back then, if you had a chest with 5 items in it, that was perfectly fine. We've craved for more and more efficiency because that's what yields profit the fastest, but it really is not needed whatsoever. Even a t4 chest left for 30 minutes will be nearly full still.

For mob grinding, I think it's very much healthy that totems were changed. They were not nerfed in any way. They were only changed to not clone mobs outside of their respective spawn regions. And may I clarify that the only players who even cared enough to drag mobs outside of those respective regions were people explicitly looking to grind for mythics. They were basically unchanged for anyone else who has ever used them for grinding experience at casual level, and even more than just a casual level.

I don't think the current sinks are too much, either. Especially with the addition of emerald pouches, the amount of income you get just from playing the game now is much higher. If you want to reroll your mythic to 4 or to 5, you should have to earn that. Spending a stack just on the fly isn't something most players should be able to do. In general, I don't think it's unhealthy for the prices of items overall within the economy to drop down a bit. Purchasing mythics from other players is more reasonable and in line with the amount of raw emeralds you're able to farm or obtain from quests, etc., than it ever has been in the past. To get 20 stacks of LE without trading any mythics is absurd. Like... Ridiculous. The mythic market being more centered around lower prices or mythic trades is much healthier, in my honest opinion.

But yeah, these are my thoughts and opinions at least. Nobody has to agree with them, of course

 

Levels 60-80 literally made me quit the game. Fetch quests are. not. fun.

 

It is. How is this even up for debate? Obviously pressing T is more convenient than reading it through the quest book.

Way to miss the point. The point is, this line of reasoning is not valuable. If the answer to if something can be improved is “yes” then your next question shouldn’t be “is it necessary?” Nothing is necessary. If there’s something worth improving then you ought to ask what’s stopping you from doing so.

Again, not the point. I don’t care what you think about shifting to skip dialogue. It’s to show that weighing advantages versus disadvantages is the relevant factor when discussing dialogue history, not whether it’s “necessary” or not. This is extremely disingenuously phrased by the way. I could just as easily list “skipping” as the pros and type multiple sentences explaining how convenient not having to press shift is. It’s not an accurate representation.

It makes complete sense if you actually read it. You’re acting as if being able to skip dialogue is relevant to whether dialogue should remain in chat. I don’t see why keeping dialogue in chat would remove the ability to skip dialogue.

The “you” doesn’t mean you specifically but any random player. I thought this would be clear. And yes, to most players the quest dialogue will be the most important thing in chat, when they’re doing a quest.

No. You get the choice between the quest dialogue and slightly harder to reach previous chat messages, or easier to reach previous chat messages and harder to reach quest dialogue. Again, disingenuous.

You have quick access, except only when that piece of dialogue is on screen and you can’t go back. So when I’ve gone through all the lines, of which there are like fifteen, and I want to quickly recap or whatever, I need to go through the quest book, which is especially inconvenient for larger portions of text. I seriously don’t get how quickly looking back to see what an NPC is a weird concept to you. Even if I don’t want to bother reading through each line one by one, because I’ve done the quest before, doesn’t mean that I want to disregard the dialogue in its entirety. Skipping through the dialogue and then taking a quick glance at what I need to do makes perfect sense. There are shades of gray between reading each line one by one and making sure you don’t miss anything in the moment and literally skipping over everything.

Skip. Quick glance. Get going. Because I don’t want to sit through the entirety of the dialogue again, but I don’t want to forego dialogue altogether. If I have to go into the quest book then I might as well just listen to the dialogue normally.

So you’re telling me that doing all these things while doing a quest is completely normal, but wanting to look back at the quest dialogue in chat is completely foreign to you?

Grow up. Also, you didn’t respond to the last part of my post saying that allowing the option to clear the dialogue from chat after it has all appeared in your chat would allow you to keep a clean chat if you wanted, while also allowing you to look back through dialogue if you don’t clear it. Strange thing to omit from your response.

 

Love most of the points on here brother, but as someone who returned to wynn to try to finish off my fishing profession, I absolutely feel that returning to the state it was in without gxp armor and boosts would be a bad idea. Most players aren't trying to get to 132 in any skill and I can respect that, and most of that is because they don't have the time to sink hours into doing one task repetitively over and over and over again for months. It sucks that the leaderboards may not be a sparkling show of "I grinded all the way here check out how cool I am", I mean getting fishing 132 is a requirement for breaking into the top 30, but I really enjoy that they were added. For people with time restraints like myself, it means that I don't have to spend a weekend getting one more level. Other than that, loved the rest of what you said here.

 

I'm a new player, I joined right as 1.19 came out, so my opinions might be less valuable or whatever but I do have a lot to say on this.

The dialogue system is eh imo. I feel like it's gotten a ton of hate and it isn't that terrible - it's just a minor detail rly, but yeah it's kinda annoying.
I agree 100% with the second point. If we can't get an overarching storyline, at least make all of the quests lore-relevant - WHY is the last quest for the Dernel Jungle, a great area with awesome quests, an obscure fetch quest that I can't even remember the name of?
Yeah no I'm pretty sure that there's an endgame quest unless 106 is your definition of endgame. AHC is fun (in my opinion), and a good quest to end with for now.
As someone who's done needed the wiki for practically every secret discovery I've "found", I'm neutral on this.

As someone who's part of a small guild that doesn't really control territories and as someone who's never been in a big guild and understood warring, I might not entirely have good points on this front. I think that guilds shouldn't really be associated with leveling at all.
I'm too poor to get a build that can win wars, and I liked the old system more, but I don't do many wars now so not much to say on this front.
No clue what a "mega alliance" is I've never been into large guild politics.

So I've tried doing professions a bit and I find it really fun (this might be an unpopular opinion not sure), and I like it how it is right now (probably an unpopular opinion).

Yeah I don't know what bugs you're talking about - I find Raids fun.

Well ok I mean 1.19 had Hunted mode but sure a new gamemode would be fun. Also yeah a challenge mode leaderboard would be cool but not a major feature.

I hate lootrunning.
Lootrunning is a boring and stupidly efficient way to find mythics (hmm I might see a reason why I'm poor but whatever), and it incentivises players to just do the same thing over and over and wait until they get a cool purple box. Somewhat extreme opinion here: They should remove lootrunning entirely and make mythic drops from dungeons and stuff more common. Also let non-tome mythics be in raid rewards.

Hmmm what pay-to-win?
As someone with a rank, I like mob totems, but yeah the fact that only ranked players get them is unfair idk how to fix it though.

Yes gib me more emeralds.
Seriously though Wynncraft has a model where the rich get richer - you get a mythic, then you sell it to get more lootrunning items, then you get more mythics, etc.
I have 17 le, which is the second highest amount of money I've ever had, and I got it by spending a long time doing quests. I got into market flipping and then lost a stack (which was brutal for me cause clearly I'm very poor), and if there was some way to balance out the economic gap between people who have 211 stacks and people like me that would be nice.

 

On my perspective on guilds there is a critical difference to the mega alliances prior to the update and the ones after goose: Back then warring was so mechanically uninteresting but the community was larger and you'd have a massive sense of accomplishment through participating in any large raid whether successful or unsuccessful. The days long stamina wars were HORRIBLE yes, but it felt like you were part of something greater. Now such large scale raids have been not just made infrequent but EXTREMELY difficult. Spenidng over 2 days straight warring in the Niflheim betrayal of Artemis was FUN, beating the shit out of BCr and BLA post Luna was FUN. Heck ANO and ILQ wiping each other out of nowhere was FUN. Guilds now are very mechanically driven and less of a social experience and a lot of older players have mixed opinions on guilds then vs guilds now. The 1.19 post mob update system was absolutely and undeniably ASS however still it felt REWARDING and as @Goden put it in a not even wynn related discord:


Back then I felt satisfaction being in 20+ person vcs either coordinating or fighting for a guild or alliance whilst we were all enjoying ourselves and socializing. Now I sit in 11 man vcs screaming with Essentuan over what is the correct move and any single mistake one person makes causes everyone to get pissed. Guild wars have become more strategic and mechanically interesting yes but significantly less social and have lost the appeal it had for me back in the 1.17-1.19 days.

I'm not saying 1.19 is perfect heck it was terrible but I'd much rather have a fixed and upgraded 1.19 system than the 1.20 system which has such a power inequality and balance problem between the average, high and top guilds that the chance any guild succeeds without the help of experienced guilds or players to some degree is beyond less than 0. The old system was intuitive, complete garbage but intuitive, it was simple easy to grasp and not too stressful. Modifications to the old system I feel would've been much better for the guild community than 1.20. YES I UNDERSTAND THE STAFF WANT TO IMPROVE THE GAME HOWEVER most of the Veterans of the guild community just up and quit after 1.20. Every massive raid it was interesting to see some of the older guilds deciding to partake in pandemonium even if only for a few hours from Snt, ReA, Fux, SDU(before it revived), DsQ and others. Guilds now have such a large inequality issue that the pool cant be expanded without the top and high tiers absolutely destroying everyone with top guilds cruushing even the other high end guilds. The sheer complexity we have introduced through community suggestions or the original 1.20 system itself has led to extremely overpowered items being used for specialized builds. Wynn is balanced for it's PvE component but when it's just a single large enemy to hit with properties so unique it eliminates half of the builds from beign feasible balance has significantly shifted away from rewarding skill to punishing being poor. This and the significant complexities makes it very hard to change anything withotu resulting in unintended consequences like the entirety of attacker allainces just up and dissolving. The system is far too complex to understand for new peopel and far too hard to balance for those who are already in it.

I will say the fact that Zeer and Salted have chosen to sit down and talk to the guild community is more than APPRECIATED however we have all dug ourselves into our graves and NOBODY in GSC or anywhere else at this point know how to actually fix up guilds purely due to the systematic issues of the new warring system and item balance. It would be unfair to balance the game around wars but without that wars will remain a rich players win poor players can't even start.


TL;DR: having hundreds of players fight in one raid whether successful or unsuccessful was fun, you felt like you were part of something big. Hard to even say that many people even touch wars now. Please bring back the ability for wars and guilds to be a social thingeys instead of tryharding.

 

That's around when I took my first break like, 5 years ago, I'm honestly surprised it's still an issue considering the fact that's the Gavel level range and it just got a major rework.

 

I would disagree my experience with doing quests on the new system has been far more painful, often requiring me to /class multiple times to get dialogue and mechanics to work.
I'm glad your experience has been better than mine.
(I wasn't refering to stat pages as evidence as alts exist)

 

I was never super into guilds (I used to war a reasonable amount with PUN and a little less with HAX) but I agree that was always the appeal, I never really cared for the community aspect so I fell off guilds but I agree that what made guilds fun, at least for me, were the nights I spend roaming around the map with a gang of players and fighting hundreds of mobs. The territory system was also simple so it was easy enough to understand why we were taking territories. I wish they could have added a reward system to that instead of the overly complex total overhaul :(

 

I like how you worded the rest of your argument and agree to a large extent however in regards to your points on the rewards from warring, and gathering XP boost / mob XP boost. the thing is that it's not really a reward that it's worth all guilds using, look at shy for example there is nowhere they could grind guild XP and hence no reason to use mob XP boost, and same with prof boost, with they gunna do boost XP on lvl 1 woodcutting in nivla. I would agree that those would be valid rewards I'd it was fairer for most claims but reality doesn't allow that.
in regards to the prof XP boost in relation to profs, as ive commented on a couple other people's responses the terr buff is far to op for grinding high lvl, sure it's a nice buff mid lvl but you barely spend any time there now especially when using a prof XP set plus the gathering tomes and you most likely making use of someone's prof bombs, it's already good enough and stupidly fast, atleast compared to the only boost being hunted.
imo the gathering boost from terrs should never have been a thing as the boost from the gathering set was already enough and then to tie profs heavily to guilds just wasn't a great idea.

 

Those quests are u just trading in your prof resources for XP, they didn't bother to make it track how much u gather and give u a reward.
Also they literally removed the progression part from the tutorial that they added in 1.18, go check it out yourself. Housing building is still only used by a minority of players and when it comes to profs they're just an item sink. Guild prof XP boost is probably the only thing that makes holding territories worth it apart from tome seeking. But let's have a more interesting conversation, do u dislike the gathering or crafting more? I like the crafting system altho I think you should be able to make more from it. My main issue is gathering being so boring and slow even with a 2nd monitor.

 

I don't see how these systems are mutually exclusive, unless I missed something? it seems entirely possible to me that we could keep the right click action and still make cutscenes skippable with that same action. don't think it's limited to shifting, but I could be wrong

 

Well I believe they don't have the time, skill, experience, knowledge or the willingness to put lots of effort into radially improving or reworking the profession system. If my belief is wrong I'd be happy, I still had fun with profs until dxp weekend where I got burned out. Sometimes I think it's stupid ur supposed to only do crafting during dxp bombs but whatever.

 

Quests and discoveries:
- Make the two dialogue options toggleable if possible (the original was better imo but other like exercising their player's thighs)
- more discoveries would be nice but something everyone sleeps on is the whimsical and random areas that old wynn and gavel used to have. Things to discover that we're going to a number in the quest book. One of my favourite places to this day is hidden valley (IYKYK) for this reason. new gavel and wynn have either made many of these places secret discoveries or loot caves so just exploring and finding cool things feels ruined for me.

Guilds:
- I agree with what most people have already said. While the new guild system looked very shiny and cool in 1.20.1 it has now become very tarnished
- A compromise between towers and mob hordes would be a good solution IMO as it would mean shamans and maybe archers would be better suited to wars again
- Mega-alliances... uhmm.... well goodluck fixing that ig.

Profs:
- gathering sucks. No your different opinions aren't valid. it sucks. even with gxp and terr bonuses.
- crafting is slightly better but since crafted items are only useful for: gxp, lq, lb weapons, war consumables (sometimes) and warp helmets with few exceptions they aren't really that worthwhile. You can make cool weapons and armour sure but if there's any competition from non crafted you won't sell anything
- prof bombs suck. it's not worth proffing at any level >30 without the bombs. This also makes bomb bell OP asf and getting into profs as someone without bomb bell or at the least a guildmate with it and /switch a hardship and a half

Raids:
- after a few runs they do get boring.... like each stage has two different rooms with minimal replayability
- spamming agi/def is just too easy. anyone with a mythic, esp one with agi/def is gonna walk on through
- rewards make me question why I even did the raid. adding runes and keys to both raid and forgery chests makes grinding them in other ways kinda useless.
- tomes... lazily implemented and need a rework

Challenge modes:
- not much of an opinion since I rarely use them, would try the more, especially HIC(H) if profs were bearable

Lootrunning:
- I have nothing more to add

Mob Grinding:
- CT can keep nerfing different grindspots but it's like a hydra, you cut off one head and 2 more replace it
- add endgame item grindspots that can be controlled better by CT instead of having to patch out different spots (Avos etc.). Mobs there won't drop emeralds, ings or xp, just item boxes. probably have some decorative lava or cacti nearby too however
- possibly make totemed mobs (they have purple particles above their heads) have reduced item droprates since it is unfair for nons
- OR give nons x number of totems when they do their daily as mentioned by someone earlier in this post

Economy:
- kinda in shambles. It would probably do better if there was better retention of players as many have gone on breaks/quit
- Mods understanding the market better would be pretty neat

 

1.20.4 isnt even that bad of an update - its pretty bog standard honestly. it has some understandable but lame changes like flapis nerf, but if it was just another update itd be fine.


the issue is this is the first update weve gotten in months and it doesnt actually address any real problems(except mythic grinding :pray:)

im a guild warra now - and attackers have been getting trolled by poor dev decisions for months now, and our first update in 3months for guilds? defender buff

theres also a whole argument to be made about how 1.20.3 (purposefully btw) fucked over community guilds like PROF and ICO who were just trying to provide services and make the best of the shitty systems (gxp boosts and tomes respectively) that salted added by giving people a reason to want them gone.

like thanks ig

(the point is rather than fixing any actual problems or listening to the community - we get updates that just add flashy new mythics and a flashy new emerald pouch for no reason. and the core issues with stuff like gxp/xp boosts havent been addressed. problems with the server arent being addressed and its quite honestly frustrating)

 

placeholder because i have a lot to say about this but don't know quite how or what yet

short version is:
- transparency always a problem, but you really gotta be specific in what sort of transparency you're talking about; i feel like this is moreso a lack of even acknowledged feedback about many controversial, lukewarm or somewhat rushed changes or additions for the entire 1.20.x range of updates or changes, which is a perfectly good complaint & there really ought to be even a few small lines of reasoning on changelogs or something similar
- please don't get hung up on the fact that "the shift is kinda annoying", get hung up on the fact that you get slowness, you're stopped from being able to attack whenever pretty much any dialogue is up, the dialogue disappears after reading it (the quest book dialogue history is not a good alternative), NPC hitboxes are wonky and continuously trap you in place when you just want to check something by rightclicking, how NPCs have just stopped spawning like 3% of the time after the quest dialogue change, a lot of dialogue actively was changed for the worse in 1.20, et cetera
- i don't know what you mean with "there is no endgame quest" but i can guess that whatever you would call an "endgame quest", it will never happen
- do you miss funny small easter eggs that don't feel the need to be counted in a book because i sure do (time to walk through rymek or llevigar and smile for a while)
- guild system was improved massively but it still falls into the trap of the actual wars themselves being awkwardly designed (really? limiting through amount of damage sent to players when that's the least balanceable thing in wynn?) and holding territories still remains an endurance battle of just being online 16 hours a day (wynncraft territory map is far too small to actually make the attempted penalty of holding many territories relevant with the amount of guilds interested in warring)
- mega alliances will always ruin guilds gameplay regardless of what system it uses
- imagine spending a long ass time trying to get gathering speed & xp as ids just right before adding them in and the same update added professions territory boosts lol
- professions honestly don't need to be more interesting themselves, they should have more interesting related content (professions-only quests anyone? anyone?)
- we've had the "don't improve professions leveling curve noooo all our effort" like five times already, it still remains a bad argument
- challenge mode leaderboard :pray:
- client side chests are going to be the only way forward as wynn hasn't been able to support active lootrunning since 1.18, but gosh dang client side chests bring along so many balance questions no one else wants to answer
- totems are fine, the amount of them you get isn't
- emerald pouches are definitely going to reduce emerald worth by 30-50% and there's a reason why people have structurally made fun of suggestions asking for them
- wynn should be focusing more on actually going back and improving old or overlooked features, if that's what you mean- bugfixing is usually not that bad aside from map pushes sometimes taking several eternities
yes this is the short version, can you imagine not wanting to type up the long version (probably only will make a long version if i ever put out my big wynn critique i've been making notes for)

also please note that i am fully and entirely typing this as wynncraft player and not ct member, these are entirely my opinions and statements, nothing what i say here necessarily reflects the intentions or situations of the team, etc etc please don't ask why i'm not fixing something as ct member if i dislike or disagree with it that's not how things work

 

Just want to comment on the part with emerald circulation:

Injecting more emeralds into the game won't magically fix the economy. It will definitely raise prices again. A lot of average players think that they'll be the ones to "get rich" when more money pours in, but as with almost every example of a market system (simulated or real life), the vast majority of that new money will simply go into the pockets of the already-rich few. Sure, your 17 LE might go up to 34. But that's immaterial when the price of Alkatraz goes from 5 stx to 10 stx because there's more people with more LE to compete. Basic inflation.

Many of the money sinks are completely optional, or aren't really significant enough unless players willingly play into them. Horse breeding, rerolling mythic - these gambling mechanisms are only a "problem" because people think they'll be the chosen one to beat the odds (protip: you won't be). Ideally, people would be rational and not gamble away multiple stacks of LE. This is obviously a comical aspiration, and a case could be made that Wynncraft could be change to discourage extreme risk-taking.