Wynncraft shouldn't always give permanent bans

Dear moderators,

I want to begin by saying that I DID do something wrong.
(Some context)
About a year ago I got teleported into a mountain during a quest. Me trying to get into the normal quest area used -part removed by a moderator please do not spread glitches-, however, I got above the barrier-block layer that is over the map. I didn't do much with this class as it was a low-level class and just used it to observe Detlas from the sky whenever I was bored. (I didn't know at the time this was bannable.)

<I cant send links yet so imagine the "Games and Forum Rules" page link here>
Rule 3. "Do not abuse bugs, glitches, or exploits."
I did break this rule and got banned for it, which I deserved. But, just standing above the barrier layer, doing absolutely nothing harmful. Why is this a permanent ban?
A week or so, that would be fine but instead, I now have a permanent penalty where if I get banned again for something small, that's it. Gone are my 600+ hours of progress and gone are the 20 or so euro's I spent on Wynncraft.

(Also I would like to point of that part of my ban ("Exploring outside the map and glitch abuse") is partly because of "Glitch abuse" however -part removed by a moderator please do not spread glitches-, so this isn't a glitch and thus can't be glitch abuse.)

I am writing this Thread to the moderators, to let them know that punishments like this can't be excepted. For example, let's say that I walk into a prohibited area in real life. The people there will first tell me that I can't be here and that I should go away. (Which the moderator that banned me also did, more on this later) If I won't go away the police will pick me up and give me maybe like 5 hours of mandatory work. They won't sentence me for life for something on this scale.

Why didn't I just /kill if a moderator told me to?
This is also a really important thing. It should be clear who is 'police' and who is not.
I have never before met a moderator and wasn't at all familiar with the orange color they have. When someone with an orange color just messages to me "/kill now!" I don't expect it to be a moderator, but just a CHAMPION rank as they have a similar-looking color.
Since it should be far more clear I would like the moderators to add a [MOD] tag in private messages so everyone knows the person they talk to is a moderator.

So the 2 things I would ask the Wynncraft team:
- Give people more than 2 chances if they only break small rules/mean no harm.
- Give people that chat with moderators the ability to know that they are in fact talking to a moderator.

Since this message is mostly for moderators, please only comment on this if you have something important to say. (i.e, don't say: "Just don't break the rules, everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes)

Sincerely,
Datablock_

 

cool but imaging walking into a us military base

 

+1 for mod tag in dms, could be useful to avoid misunderstandings in case you don't know about chat colors

 

Mod tag in DMs does sound helpful for players unable to distinguish Champion and Mod hues.
I don't know with Admin then, as it is always the general red.
Maybe the entire Wynn team?

EDIT: Could try suggesting this

 

I am just going to step away from this whole situation for a second to laugh at the sheer irony of this part:

 

While I do think the Wynn system is a little unfair, a lot of servers have a similar one in place for hackers and dupers (ours if for bug abusers and dupers) where most bans are permabans and then if you make a good ban appeal your ban will be reduced. Wynn is basically the same.

I still think Wynn should have a temp ban system though
Something like this:

Glitch abuse: 1 week
Continued glitch abuse: Permanent
Hacking: Permanent
Duping: Permanent

 

I get where you are coming from and I understand experiencing the permanent ban probably feels weird especially when most servers temp ban. In my opinion, the permanent ban system works and is helpful because it allows us moderators to talk to the banned person and figure out a few things. The conversation can lead to things like what the person did wrong maybe as some sort of clarification, assuring that the person won’t break the rules again, knowledge of other people breaking the rules, or knowledge of how the glitch works. Sure it probably is frustrating being told that you have to create an appeal but its very beneficial to mods. The second ban is usually permanent but in certain situations it may not depending on the standards, (I cannot reveal what the standards are and it is a decision of the management). Most of the time people won’t even receive a ban but a warn instead but thats also situational. Honestly having a mod tag im dms is a good idea and I’m kind of intrigued by it but if you have any more questions you can dm me or any other moderator.

A lot of the time we do give people warnings but it all depends on the severity of the issue and how the current public perceives it. Like if most of Wynn perceives something as allowed and most people do it even though it’s glitch abuse we would start warning them.

Good idea, discussion about this is sparking now with moderators.

This may sound weird but I definitely don’t agree with only having a tempban for glitch abuse. People that glitch abuse are usually higher leveled and are more likely to create an appeal. A lot of them are usually aware of what they are doing is bad. In situations where glitch abusing is widespread warnings are given out but not tempbans. If anything I’d say I’d rather have a tempban for hacking but I like the permanent ban system more.

 

glitch abuse = pog we all love glitch abusing, such as getting like 20m xp from inf aldorei 2 rewards(prty sure patched) bc wynncraft has good coders who make good shift to skip dialogue codes

 

Simple solution: patch the glitch in question
ik what it is cos I found it by accident, seems pretty hard to patch but I have some ideas

 

In many situations, the glitch is either impossible to patch or needs a lot of work done to be patched. Even when a glitch is patched it takes a while for there to be an update the pushes the fixed glitch.

 

I mean that really isn't the player's fault is it

permban for 'bug abuse' is kinda dumb esp. when wynn code is so jank its not even clear what is and isn't bug abuse

is -edited out by a moderator, please don't spread information regarding glitches- bug abuse?

 

I mean, it's not the players fault and in the case where the glitch has been reviewed and deemed as impossible to fix, the players usually will get unbanned as if the glitch was fixed because it is unfair to be permabanned forever by a glitch that can't be fixed. However, if the player uses a glitch that has malicious intent or abuses a large amount of glitches to do bad things and what not and those glitches cannot be patched, there is a high probability they will remain banned.

 

alright apparently that glitch is so serious that it was edited out when it is regularly used to improve qol and overall work around the jankness that is wynn code

I'm impressed

seriously

Also (assuming they aren't lying) OP's intentions were anything but malicious, getting a permban without a warning for this is kinda ridiculous no

 

I'm a part of a gaming network where we also run Minecraft Servers and we actually never give perm bans for cheating and glitch abuse. Cheating is always a ban for 6 months while Glitch Abuse is either 1 week or also 6 months depending on the severity and the length can always be adjusted if the glitch that was being abused felt too big for 1 week but too small for 6 months. If the OP isn't lying and what they said is all they did, then this ban was way over the line and would never happen on our network even if we did hand out permanent bans, this is just such a minor thing that I think that the 1-week ban would be appropriate but before that the person should be given a proper warning, or even two warnings and not just "kill now!" message from a "random" and "unknown" person to the player, since it is very believable that they actually had no idea that a moderator was talking to them.

I believe that everyone (with a few exceptions) can change and people just don't deserve permabans. Someone (not talking about OP rn, just giving an example) made a stupid mistake and in 5 years they still have to pay for it, I find that incredibly stupid. Especially if that person has to pay for a stupid mistake like this one (now talking about OP)

There are a few exceptions where I think a permaban is applicable and those are situations where we have given out rare permabans as well (there are only about 5-6 permabans active on our Minecraft network with over 12000 bans). Large-scale Duping would definitely be a permaban though we haven't had that issue. Server-breaking glitches (that can also include duping, but I mean more like server crashes and similar). Long-term severe rule-breaking of about every rule that the said server has (we had three cases like that, one of the guys received over 70 bans over a 2-year period and I don't count alt accounts (and there were many) before he got permabanned)

I'm not saying for Wynn staff to be that lenient and let someone accumulate over 70 bans before getting a permaban, that would be destructive considering Wynn's size, but I think that Wynn is on the other spectrum of extreme with handing out permabans for the smallest non-harmful glitches.

 

6 months ban for cheating seems a bit too harsh, especially when you consider how terrible MC Account security is. If you get hacked, that's a bye bye for half a year...

 

Hello everyone and thank you for giving this thread some attention.

After some thinking, I might have found a solution for small bans. (As [MOD] _eth3real said) Wynncraft likes perm bans to know the intentions of the player so hear me out:
A person is 'banned' to a sort of interrogation room, they can't play the normal game anymore and will just spawn in that room once logged in. Once a moderator logs in they can have a chat.
If the moderator thinks the person can be let go with a warning then the person is free, otherwise, he will stay banned or have to create an appeal on the Wynncraft forums.

The reason I think this is a good idea is that a player in this case has someone to directly talk to. When I was banned the moderator (Which again, I didn't know he was a moderator at the time) did send messages to me (Not just /kill but also a few others) but I felt like some messages didn't go through as the conversation was a bit weird (and I /classed as I was a bit scared that it might be serious). He was also sending messages from a different location, if he teleported to me I would have instantly listened as I would then know it was a moderator and it feels nice to have someone in front of you when talking to him/her. This is why the room idea, where the moderator is in front of you, seems like a good idea to me.
(The point of the paragraph above me is that the current warning system is a bit unclear)

The best about all of his is that it doesn't seem that difficult to program in:
Just add a command for moderators to /interrogationroomban <reason>
Then store it in a file as an array of all player UUID's and reasons
And then with a PlayerLoginEvent, you can just check if the player is in there, teleport them to the interrogation room and tell them why they are there.

The only downside to this is that when a moderator isn't logged in, the player needs to keep their client open and it cost a tiny bit of server resources.

This is just an idea,
Anyway, thank you all for the replies :)

 

concur with hppeng on the really weird ways in which things are considered glitches

 

I’m imagining a player in a sensory deprivation room with a bright white light and a platform the moderator descends from as the player kneels down and says their prayers

 

When you put it that way then ye, but we have additional security means like you have to log in to play (when you join the server you have to use the /login command with your selected password), if someone bypasses that and the hacker gets someone's account banned and the victim then fills an appeal, we always check the IPs and always consider stuff like this. Also, ye 6 months may feel harsh to some, but most servers I've seen hand out permanent bans for cheating.

 

I believe that if you break a rule intentionally or unintentionally, you should be punished; however, I believe that there should be some leniency in terms of the duration of the punishment, just as there is in the court system in real life.