Guild Owners Hate Them! Find Out How To Get To Level 91 With This Simple Trick!

It isn’t that it is AVO’s fault, it is in the game and exists at fault of the developers. That said, however, people will naturally take progress with a grain of salt knowing how it was achieved as what has happened to a lot of guilds.

I also don’t understand the whole Fox not using glowbulb while bugged thing because on numerous occasions AVO grinded glowbulb when it was incontestable. It’s also completely different now and the means to grind how you have been able to is not available to every guild. The whole idea of FFAs in itself has basically been stripped away. It’s a totally different scenario and system. All this doesn’t excuse the fact how broken it is, and it truly is not available to everyone who just wants to waltz in and use it.

it isn’t AVO’s fault that it exists. I could also say that it wasn’t Hax’s fault they owned the entire map for over a year as well lul

 

This thread is looping so hard it might be considered a möbius strip

 

There are benefits to owning territories, but not for you either. The concept of FFA does not really function that well. Not anyone can just access that and be able to do so that efficiently. Like you can grind nether gate if you want lmao

 

incoming: lots of hardwork and group effort

 

This really isnt anywhere near as exclusive as y'all seem to think - the high xp we get isn't because of frozen fort itself, other places for other guilds can easily match and in some cases outdo our spot because of the new buffs introduced in 1.20. AVO doesn't have any divine right for those territories, so theoretically if any guild were willing to put in the work for it they could get their hands on one of the spots that would allow similar xp. In both Hax and Fox's case it was physically impossible for another guild to do the same thing, in this case it is open to anyone willing to put in the work.
The crazy numbers aren't because frozen fort exists and we're able to grind there, they're because of crazy hard work being put in by teams of people to use every buff available to us. No two people can take all the credit for this, but those two did put in a lot of hard work and group effort Ice, you're absolutely right.
Two people can now achieve what used to take twenty but that is simply the nature of all MMOs. In 1.19 lq was released which made mythics incredibly more common, refining was removed enabling professions to be completed far more easily. The new grindspots released when 1.19 dropped could only ever be used optimally by one guild at a time, but they were still used by dozens of different guilds.

 

simply gonna add TNL is probably a better example than Hax here; technically guilds could take control of the map it was just incredibly hard in Hax's case, meanwhile TNL was glitched with lava lake under their control for a straight year to get to such a high lv prior to 1.19ish

 

Not gonna lie, this thread has kinda turned into an endless, time-looped blame game between the two major guild alliances about who is the scapegoat of this mechanical issue instead of discussion about the issue itself. Say what you will about the CT and admins (they already know I'm not their biggest fan myself), but they're rightfully not gonna take the actual proposed changes and complaints seriously if this thread is just gonna continue being a match between turd-flinging monkeys. They don't give a fuck about the politics behind Minecraft square wars.

 

To their credit, they appear to care about block war politics about as much as they do the rest of their game. At least they're not playing favorites :/

 

This is not even remotely the case. The territory game doesn’t work like as it did, for example, glowbulb. You cannot just take any territory and automatically reap the benefits of it. Even the concept of FFA is somewhat abolished. I could theoretically take Frozen Fort, but to upgrade it to the capacity in which it produces such gains is even less viable given political standings. It isn’t one territory anyone can just snatch and reap the gains from. You also say you don’t have the divine right to them, but your alliance owns the map and they all subject themselves to it being your claim.

then again, the issue is that all the bonuses are multiplicative and not additive.

I love the attempts to completely dismiss this as an issue. The message from your guild is so conflicting as you have some people understandably agreeing they cannot justify the current meta of grinding while people like yourself are trying to pass it as normal and just how things progress when it is so fundamentally broken.

You also speak from a place of privilege as the guild benefitting directly from the source of the issue. You have been in possession of it the whole time. You also claim the system rewards “work” but anyone can put in even more work and not achieve the gains you are receiving. Leveling has shifted from being grind based more than tied more to wars as previously which is also eh

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Also for anyone who is saying that no work was invalidated with the addition of these new features is wrong. The argument that the fact that anyone can use it, which really is not the case, does not mean no work was invalidated.

You have to remember that guilds did NOT get to keep their xp. You only got to keep the xp you had on your current level. Meanwhile, AVO was able to grind out the highest number ever seen after 1.20, a lot in which came from two individuals.

this doesn’t make sense. Guilds are now capable of making more xp than ever possible, yet guilds did not get to keep their prior xp?

originally, the idea was that, since level requirements were nerfed, if guilds got to keep all their xp it would boost them so far to where they would become insurmountable due to the inferior gains of xp with 1.20

clearly not the case since they grinded 45 billion, which btw is more than four times what every single territory on the map produced in 1.19 in a day.

you cannot say work was not invalidated when we did not get to keep our xp meanwhile the mega for xp is more OP than ever. The 45 billion figure is a lot bigger when you take into account that billions of xp got erased and it made it so that every guild virtually earned less than they actually did in the span of years.

What took us billions and billions of xp to get to say, level 71, is now achievable at a much lower rate, and xp is more produced than ever with a new meta.

In all, the 45 billion is such a huge figure because not only is it unprecedented, but everyone’s xp was invalidated on what seemed to be the basis that xp gain would now be inferior and hence should be adjusted as to not create insurmountable guilds with unreachable levels with the new xp gains. Yet here we are, the addition of charms matched with guild multipliers and we have ourselves a new broken meta that is doing just that on a scale never seen before.

anyways, people tried to use that argument back then with glowbulb as if “anyone can use it so it’s not invalidating any work.” The addition of glowbulb did indeed invalidate the efforts of many guilds, but never did it involve the actual erasing of earned xp, which is no longer justifiable given what has occurred.

 

Yes, it's a lot more work to get territories/claims now. However, that's hardly an excuse for not having them. Just because we have a strong war team and our alliance helps us when we get attacked does not mean we have a divine right to sky islands. Anyone with equal or greater strength can take it from us and keep it like what we are doing right now.


Let's be completely clear here once and for all.


AVO believes that 45b is ridiculous along with the rest of you. Every MMO evolves, and previous hours get invalidated by newer hours, that is just the unfortunate nature of the game. However, there is an extent to which this is understandable, and 45b is a bit past that. Thus far, we are in complete agreement with Goden.


The ONLY argument here arises is how to go about nerfing guild xp gains. The current proposal is to make the guild xp additive instead of multiplicative, which I am personally extremely against. The entire purpose grind spot containing territories, and claims in general right now, are to get xp buffs from them. It makes a lot of sense to me that if grinding gxp in a territory, I should be able to grind several times faster if I own the territory. This has been a feature for longer than 1.20, and that idea has always been a non-issue, so it feels a bit foolish to pretend as if that's the problem.


The problem arises with the raw xp gain for any player being much much higher than 1.19, along with the lower xp requirements to level up. Instead of speaking in billions, think of the % of a level grinded. You are expected to be able to grind % of a level much faster with an update like this, however it is quite crazy how much that has increased. Instead of ruining the entire idea of territories (it feels a bit imprudent), we are supporting 2 other ways of making numbers more reasonable.


1. Nerfing charms/tomes. With the introduction of new items that stack like charms and tomes, xp gains have shot through the roof. Getting xp in general has never been easier, and this is bound to have a chain reaction on guild xp. However, the main counterargument to this is that a nerf to these would not only affect guilds, but also the general player. Arguable whether that is necessary or not.


2. Increasing the amount of xp required to level up. Salted's idea of decreasing the levelling requirements and hoping that the new active grinding guilds will be able to regain lost slots is definitely interesting, but many clearly feel adversely affected by it. By increasing the amount of xp required to go between levels, it sustains the normal players' grinding of xp at 1.20 rates, it keeps the buffs that territories need to be worth it, while still managing to slow down the rate at which 1.20 grinding replaces previous grinding.


Ima be honest, I have absolutely no idea what you're going on about with erasing xp. The only thing that happened was that weird thing where everyone levelled up, and it affected AVO/AVO was as pissed about it as everyone else. Sure it now requires much less xp to level up but that affects everyone the same. AVO was #3 or #4 in level before 1.20 and it took a lot of grinding for us to get there as well.

 

I think what I said made sense.

It would be 100% reasonable if they did not let us keep all our xp from the old system if xp in the new system was inferior.

Guilds had billions stored from what territories produced back then, and upon the update's release it seemed apparent leveling was not going to be as easy, and level requirements were also cut. It would not make sense if we all got to keep our xp from the previous system if it was absolutely broken compared to the gains of this system. Would have made it harder for new guilds.

That said, the fact AVO was able to grind out that much, largely between two people, shows that is not the case. They only let us keep the xp from our CURRENT level progress, and not all our xp all-time - meanwhile level requirements got slashed and the new grinding metas are more OP than they ever were.

That is what I mean by that work was invalidated.

Saying that everyone is impacted the same or that, for example, anyone can abuse something does not mean no one's work is being invalidated. With the inflation of xp, the works of past guilds do get lost because of what happens to our leaderboard.

The leaderboard should ideally represent all-time. I see the territory leaderboard more as a present time leaderboard, and levels all-time. Guilds that no longer played back then used to still be on the leaderboard and recognized because they had earned it. They had been around for years prior and ultimately level is something about consistency with time. Not anymore though. Xp inflation, bad decisions.

A level 71 guild today can be a new guild no one heard of while its level equivalent could be a guild that was active in the community for four years with constant presence in the war scene. That is what it has come down to. Level no longer really symbolizes all-time effort, let alone are really linked to wars.

I mean for me, the concern is that what even becomes of the leaderboard if it is inconsistent? What does it even mean, or what is it all for? It becomes vague. What does the #1 title even mean if it just represents the guild that grinded the most in the present.

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I should also mention that if the attacking guild is of equal strength, the defending guild would win because of its protections. The attacker would have to be superior (irrelevant side view)

Anyways, that is not at all true given political standings. Every landholding guild on the map right now is allied. Its a mega alliance. No one can waltz in on Sky Island and just rob AVO blind, you would get dogpiled and outnumbered by established landholders. To say any guild of superior strength could just take it-

Besides, I think the main focus should be on your allies - the landholders. Any other guild that owns land can't just take it because of the bindings of a mega alliance. If you claim any guild can go there and take Frozen Fort, and reap the same benefits, are you saying you are making it FFA for your allies?

As far as I can tell, that territory is divine right of AVO to the rest of your allies. It isn't for us, no, but we still aren't able to simply use it as you are now.

Ignore me for a moment, because I think your focus is on me and my ability to attack Frozen Fort alone. Consider your own allies. What about them? No landholding guild has access to Frozen Fort but AVO. So unless you are making it FFA, I don't think your argument regarding that has much merit.

Spoiler: FFAs dead

FFA wouldn't even work. You would have to own the surrounding land and some select territories in which produce the means to even upgrade the territory to reap the same benefits AVO is capable of. No landholding guild can just take Frozen Fort and use it to such efficiency. No attacking guild can just walk in and do as such so simply either. The system is a lot more complex. Comparing it to glowbulb is a false comparison. Anyone was able to attack void valley back then and instantly reap the benefits. The situation with Frozen Fort is much different, and more than double than glowbulb from the numbers we have seen. . so far.

At least you can seem to agree its broken and that something is clearly wrong with the size of those numbers.

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By that logic you will just continue digging a bigger hole for yourself, let alone give people even more reason to criticize or invalidate your achievements.

 

Just putting this here again - with even more unanimous approval.

One territory shouldn't so busted in comparison with other territories. Even though glowbulb was accessible to every guild, legitimately, it is never justifiable when one territory alone produces more than every other territory on the map - combined.

Whats even the point of holding down an empire anywhere on the map when one guild can just climb with one busted territory. It basically invalidates most areas of the map and regions. Essentially no place in Wynn province has that potential, and much of Gavel.

At first, I wasn't fond of the fact that territories all produced equally in which you could manually upgrade because I did not think it would promote competition. Giving one territory a whole monopoly is something else.

Honestly, grinding had never really been so extremely beneficial until after glowbulb, which was a genuine mistake in which the CT was not even knowledgable about. You could grind before, but owning territories was the main way of gaining xp alongside attacking FFAs.

Now days you can just grind and escape the whole aspect of leveling with consistency and time managing land.

 

mfw you say guilds of equal power when avo vc looks like this on raid days with even more people playing in game and attacking guilds barely add up to 10 warrers total lmfao
(these are from two separate days)

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I really just feel like you aren't even listening; no one said that this was in any shape or form balanced compared to other xp gains. We're just refuting your statement that "no other guild could even get this territory" when the fact of the matter is no one has been able to because no one has the war capability to actually take us down yet. Other guilds have gotten close, mind you, but when you're up against a guild that has literally so many warrers people are filling very low attacks with 6 members, it's a little hard to compete. Alliances also aren't that helpful because even if you take a territory, you can't give it back anymore. Plus, guilds are so far spaced apart that sending help is actually excruciatingly painful because your emeralds can barely reach allied territories before the guild defending has already taken it. It literally takes ~20 minutes for AVO to attack an IBT territory, which is literally a next-door neighbor. Besides, you're saying that having allies help you is unfair, but meanwhile attacking guilds usually do so in groups of 2-4... Defenders don't have an innate advantage, I think it's just correlation that people want to join strong guilds and the strong guilds are the ones defending atm.

 

You completely dodged the whole point though. You again contest that we can take the territory, but as I said, it isn’t about us. We are but a small minority. Goose is the majority and also consists of all landholders. What about them? Are they now allowed to contest the territory? Is it becoming FFA internally? Frozen Fort is not your divine right to any of us, you don’t have to convince me otherwise, but to your allies it is. What about them?

 

Coming from the one with a guild who tried Kandon Ridge and failed SEVEN TIMES and just had a stroll in Path to Ahmsord Lower/Upper and Sky Castle until they gave up.

Stop saying defences are imbalanced when literally all I've seen taken is Very Low's, Low's maybe a Medium on a sunny day, and a high if I won the lottery that day.

EDIT: Even if a guild with power on the scale AVO is potentially at, they would have a amazing chance if they play their cards right.

 

Bruh yall rlly can't write out any argument without either trashing your enemies or praising your own guild? Be more like @HungHung who managed to write an actual reply to Ice's inquiries lol

 

Did you intentionally misread that? I was not remotely referring to the physical defenses, more so the effect of pity and existence of other defensive protections, which I am not even at all arguing against. It was a side point at that.

Defenders should have established protections over their claims, and I did not refute that.

 

Yes. They are allowed to contest the territory, but they won’t because we are in an alliance. If they really want to try to raid us, I don’t see why not. It’s not like the first time a guild in an alliance has left to attack said alliance. There’s just always repercussions to doing such things. We don’t hold a divine right because that’s not how territory assignments work. The alliance in power has agreed on this. Whether the said alliance has decided on the imbalance of AVO’s xp advantage is up to said alliance, not up to you. Goose literally just uploaded a new map, and we didn’t get cut.

We are literally just stating facts. ANO and some other guilds at the moment are incapable of taking Low/Medium difficulty territories, a feat that is easily accomplished solo by some of our warrers, including me. Yes, there is some banter. But this isn’t just trash talking. We’re pointing out the fact that you guys can’t take the territory. The fact of the matter is, a lot of Artemis/non-Goose guilds (outside of like ERN, Ped, and a few others) are either not experienced enough or lack the skill and builds required to take these territories.

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Ped, ERN, and Hax have taken us to the brink of being overtaken. They didn’t lose because of pity timer or whatever, as we were not low enough on territories to trigger it. They lost because of poor resource management. I don’t think ANO has ever taken a guild down to the territories required to even trigger the new pity system, so please stop. Again, this is not trash talk, it’s just the facts as of late (with mild banter)

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with pity cost nor even physical defenses. I said nothing to the contrary.

Your points are completely irrelevant to the discussion, besides, if you agree that the numbers are most definitely broken, you can just say so, but instead you keep making counterclaims as to justify it.

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This thread is about whether or not 45 billion, which it has even more potential at that, is balanced. The consensus across leaders has been unanimously that it is not. No one argued that pity should be nerfed or removed or that defenders should be disadvantaged. This thread is pretty black and white, either you agree or you don’t.