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interestingly when hax did this no one seemed to complain, despite this being on 11/23/20, which was post-bulb cave nerf, and it not only broke the previous record but did it with almost triple the difficulty (with vv no longer tripling xp gains).

thread is not directed at anyone btw

 

Fair enough, I'll explain it.
As previously mentioned, I used a screenshot of AVO cause as we are all aware they are the ones using the bonuses described to grind right now.
I used a picture of Fox xp in my last thread cause I couldn't care less who is using it, the whole point is to fix the underlying issue so that no one, regardless of alliance, can accelerate xp gains this much.
Regarding your jab at my guild you correctly noticed that Imperial does not actively play, as we are a community guild and have no majority interest in Wynn right now. I have nothing to gain from attacking AVO directly which I explicitly mentioned in my thread, I don't actively lead any Wynn guilds and I do hope you can see the wisdom in addressing an actual issue with bipartisan support, as many of your fellow alliance member seem to have done.

 

what reputation at this point? Artemis, even when AVO was a member, had already destroyed AVO's reputation to the point where most new recruits in other guilds already have a negative reputation despite really not knowing anything. One of my first impressions as a Hax recruit was that Avicia was a terrible guild full of sweats and ethicless playerbots. I don't think saying this is even like remotely worth any weight anymore just because of how shit avo's reputation has been regardless of what they do

imagine using an almost year-old screenshot of a person who doesn't even play atm, in which the message echoes the general consensus around vv at the time. it was literally use vv or get left behind. i think people are forgetting that without guild boosts avo would be earning anywhere from 5-10b/day at this rate, which has been more than most guilds grind per week. while by no means am i saying that just because avo can get 5-10b/day with no guild boost justifies getting 40b/day, the fact of the matter is no other guild has even grinded as much as we do, so even if they remove all these buffs other guilds still won't be able to hold up (if current rates continue).

 

Actually no, you're giving the entire point of this thread right here. All of us have a huge problem with you guys getting EIGHT times what anyone else's effort could be worth (more probably being realistic), and we would like to balance that by getting this feature adjusted because the balancing in this game seems to be shit and loves to invalidate things.

 

no, it’s literally not 8 times. the guild boost is 400% and i think you missed my point entirely. I wasnt defending being able to hit large numbers like 40b, I think it’s broken. I was pointing out the fact other guilds aren’t even grinding remotely as much as we do, so even if guild boosts were nerfed, avo would still be beating every single other guild in terms of xp gain

 

mfw

regardless i think its 300 anyway so six but w/e, does not change that no one cares if you guys grind the most, awesome for you, it shouldn't be braindead easy for you guys however compared to literally any other guild just because you guys are lucky enough to have the one grind spot where this is completely busted lol, youre hardly working for it at all considering bulb took SIGNIFICANTLY more effort than killing these weak mobs with less hp

 

Many of the people in this thread never gave us a fair chance at having a good reputation in the first place, spanning all the way to even before glow bulb became apparent. Dishing out concealed half-truths about what we accomplished like jabs, putting the controversial in bold and conveniently leaving out our merits. If you only get barraged with criticism and never see any of your positives being mentioned, would you shoot yourself in the foot for a false promise that you have never even gotten a glimpse of? The promise of having "a good reputation" people speak of? From our past perspective, people never wanted to give us that chance to begin with. From our perspective our only options were either "receive slander" or "receive slander + xp", the choice wasn't hard to make.

Nerf it. The xp was at least within comprehension prior to the release of Orphion charm if you need any leads. Just put an end to these horrors, but don't imply that being saints will ever give us something worthwhile, it has not in the past, why would the future be any different?

 

Yeah, if you're a top guild, you're going to receive a ton of criticism, skepticism, insults, all of that. It feels like shit--believe me, I am entirely aware as I'm sure is well known--however most of it you can take in stride and use it to grow. Foster your community, do things for the public like events, show the community that the shit people say about you isn't true. That's all you can really do in that position.

However, with regards to your latter point, I completely agree the choice isn't that hard to make, as Fox was posed with the exact same choice. We were glitched with void valley unable to be taken from us at the height of bulb parties, and we could've abused the fuck out of it because the entire community knew it was broken. Instead, we made a public announcement stating that we were not happy that this had happened to us as we feel it is an unfair advantage posed only to our guild and none other, and as such we informed our members that we would not permit them to grind GXP while we had it that day for the sake of fairness. We valued a competitive environment in which all guilds had an opportunity to grind that same spot fairly, and when it became far from that, we did not want to take part in it. Sure, we could be a couple billion closer to Hax or whatever if we had, but we felt that was meaningless in comparison to the lasting impact on our reputation it would've had if we grinded it for hours on end and abused something provided unfairly to just us and no one else.

You've got a choice now once more, and I agree--it's not that hard to make.

 

It's funny because minutes after I made that post I was thinking about reaching out to drew to ask him if history really is cyclical and consistent.

The gains prior to 1.20.1 did not weigh too much on my conscience, considering the different types of hard work we put in to make it possible.
I had 1 proper but short grinding session post-charm and felt dirty afterwards, coincidentally right around when the thread was pinged to me.




I am not having a good time with this ^


How fortunate Fox was to have been so much more optimistic at the time than we are right now to have made that choice with little delay.

 

It was an executive choice by me mostly because despite recognizing that man we sure could make a huge amount of progress towards that awesome #1 guild goal we strove to achieve for so many years against Hax, what's the point if people are gonna look at it and just say "yeah they just got it from a broken system they abused".

Even if you grinded manually and worked hard for several years, if you fuck with an iffy system in the community for even a slight advantage in doing it the community is going to just consider the whole thing invalid, as shown by Hax extremely well.

 

The problematic sentiment which is pervasive within the guild right is now that even if we were to do the right thing, people will continue to list excuses for our progress regardless as they have been doing in the past and have given no indication it will ever stop. A sentiment I am guilty of having as well mind you.
With that as a given, is it any wonder the "use it until it gets nerfed" attitude is a popular one.

 

I can't speak on behalf of anyone else, but I can't say I blame you for farming hard given the current situation, it's not your fault the game is busted and it's not fair to criticize you for playing the meta. Don't hate the player, hate the game. That said, even if this is a personal issue for you (because people are targeting you), a conversation about this still needs to take place and things really need to change even though it's probably going to negatively impact you.

This is probably a hot take, but I'm all for you abusing the shit out of this, please do it as much as you can, nothing is going to change until the devs realize that there's actually a problem since they clearly don't give a shit right now.

 

As Goden seems to have implied, this looks to be a problem not just exclusive to us, I don't believe this problem is unique to AVO, rather the type of guild that AVO is would be a better way to put it.
Just as I have in the past murmured complaints about "Fox getting so good xp and they don't have to do anything for it omg" the same seems to happening to us. I'm not defending 40b xp though, that shits insane, i am and will be defending the 4-6billion xp we were gaining 3 weeks ago during a large community event/giveaway when everyone was super stoked to gain some levels.

I started drifting pretty far into my personal opinions on this. REMINDER: I am not even a chief as of right now and none of what I say is the opinion of the guild as a whole, it is my own perspective.

 

Wow why can't we all just return to the good old Dead Miner Cave/Trained Corrupted room feuds back when there weren't any quests, or guilds, or any of that professors mumbo jumbo. This has gotten out of hand. You wynncraft gen Z ers wouldn't understand how good the good old days were.

 

generally yea it is kinda unfair when its only that specific guild that can use this "meta" strategy that is inaccessible to any other guild on map at anywhere near the same degree as that guild

 

Yeah, but as I said after, who's fault is it that the game is broken? Instead of targeting members of AVO, it makes more sense to complain about how horribly mismanaged this game is. If the devs can't figure out how to respond to huge issues like this in a well documented and timely manner after stuff like this keeps happening every other week, the fact that AVO is getting a couple mostly meaningless numbers isn't really my top concern and I don't think it should be yours either. Telling AVO to stop farming and complaining about them to their faces isn't going to accomplish anything, it just makes the discourse about this issue more toxic and personal when this really isn't a personal issue, it's a mechanical issue. Whether a guild is exploiting a feature is irrelevant in the discussion of if the feature is good or not, calling out AVO accomplishes literally nothing.

 

In the end it is the developers fault. They are the ones that made it exist after all, probably with little thought or testing and how it would all multiply. People keep saying “oh your just salty.”

well I am. I am so rightfully salty that things keep happening in this system with little thought to the potential consequences. Even the initial release barely got tested and was so exclusive to who could participate. There are so many things we have all fought for that quite frankly we should even have had to be concerned about in the first place. Why even ask us for our opinion of you go ahead and implement it without even hearing us out. Instead we watch things that impacts live results as we sit waiting for change to something that shouldn’t happen. This has been the story for every change so far.

 

lol i hope you realize that ff isn't even top 3 grind spots in terr on the map rn,,,

I know you brought up the point of when VV was bugged during dxp weekend, Fox decided to be noble and not abuse it, because it was unfair. However, I think an extremely important distinction here is that VV was glitched. There was nothing any guild could do, and Fox decided to respect that and try to be as fair as possible. Asking avo to stop grinding xp now is similar to asking Fox to not use VV during any other weekend, which at the time would seem a bit petty and without basis. It was pretty much decided that even though VV at the time was crazier than anything else we've seen before, artemis guilds should go ahead and use it while they can, because otherwise they'd be left behind.

The ONLY bug/unintended mechanic thats involved here is that xp numbers are misrepresented in /gu list. The total amount of xp our guild is completely unaffected by this, and if this bug were to be fixed you would not see a single change in the amount of xp our guild has been earning, simply Margotops/sumoo would look less impressive and others would get their share of the xp.

It's also important to note that when grinding mirror/ff in 1.19 with terr, you would also experience a 300% xp buff to guild xp, those numbers aren't different. The thing that is taking these numbers to the tens of billions is the multiplicative nature of the charms and tomes, the real issue with 1.20 xp grinding mechanics.

 

and those aren't being used because?

the only distinction I really see here is that VV was accessible to any guild on OR off the map and FF currently is accessible to
1 (one btw)
unless something changes politically, which obviously avo won't jeopardize at the moment (nor would any guild) as that'd be a little foolish when you're in such a fantastic position

sure, that's annoying as a bug, however this thread has been entirely complaining about awful balancing in the first place which is exactly what you're getting at in the latter part

while i do entirely agree both tomes and charms are overtuned, your comparison is still quite flawed here. yeah its the same 300% multiplier, however as it's multiplicative that means it still multiplies WITH tomes and charms, and while yeah that is a fault of tomes and charms absolutely, those two are not in the game solely to grind guild xp. nerfing them would harm the entire playerbase, guild players or not, and to be quite honest they aren't too bad when their effects aren't TRIPLED for guild players, as evidenced by witness cave originally on 1.20 release (which was quite ridiculous, but still nowhere near what this has been). as such, it's far more reasonable to push for a severe nerf of the guild exclusive feature that is simultaneously a gigantic buff and is not affecting the majority of the player base from a development standpoint.

 

I don't know? Its likely got something to do with some combination of motivation and activity.

I think you're missing the simple fact that FF/the several other comparable grind spots are accessible to ANY guild who has the strength to hold on to them. It's not similar to Fox's VV situation during dxp weekend where the game itself disallowed ANYBODY from taking the territory from Fox.

The sentiment remains the same with the territory. If you were grinding combat xp, you'll get A xp/min. If you own the territory (and are feeding large amounts of fish into it) you'll get 300% A. The 1.20 buffed the base xp earned (A) significantly which in turn buffed gxp grinding, but that's not an issue with the guild xp multiplier. In 1.19 if you had grinded gxp at frozen fort, you'd be grinding exactly 1/3 as fast as an avo member, and there never really was an issue with that.

With the new update, xp grinding has become significantly easier, and there's nothing AVO or any other guild can immediately do about that. I understand and agree wholeheartedly that the xp gains have been ludicrous, however I personally believe that should be attributed to the new multiplicative xp items and not the guild multiplier.

This thread has, whether intentionally or not, devolved into a sort of shit on AVO thread, where multiple guild leaders have chimed in talking about how this will ruin AVO's reputation forever. If anything, the people who should be condemned for the "invalidation" of previous grinding are the people who decided to add slaying xp tomes and charms. Blaming AVO/faulting us for using them is puerile.