SPOILER The Worst Quests In 1.20

I agree it's very similar to the old quest, but that's kind of the point, it's supposed to have the same premise but be better. And, looking at the changes:
1) no more flower collecting nonsense
2) tiek replacement is actually a person with flaws and not just generic good
3) gives a reason for why you're needed, despite Lari already trying to stop decay
4) path to the end cutscene is actually clear and possible to find without wiki
why is lari annoying? she's frustrated, very understandably, that she's being replaced after 1000 years of work, and she STILL is willing to accept your help, if only slightly

why is dullahan boring? seems much more interesting now than generic evil headless horseman
i agree Lari makes very bad decisions in this quest, but i wouldn't say i hate her for it, she's still just trying to do good

ok please explain why you think the story is boring, i agree there are perhaps a few too many cinematics but the story still interested me

also, about the starting puzzle, it 1) actually has no dialogue now, you needed some before, although not from the quest NPC, and 2) actually tells you where to go instead of "the castle" and then you have to figure out it's not the castle and is actually the little door on the side

looking at all the differences again:
1) starting puzzle is much clearer to solve, if a bit less interesting
2) explains decay lore/timeline much better than any previous quest
3) dullahan is an interesting character rather than being generic (i can see why you wouldn't like the change, but he's still more interesting)
4) shows more why Orphion needs your help despite having Lari
5) hints at Lazarus Pit - could be seen as spoilers I guess, despite the blatant name, but also makes sense and connects the world more
6) no dullahan boss still - yeah, kind of sad, would've been nice to have a corrupted theorick-type fight at the end



it's fine if you want to state your opinion, but i would like it if you explained why you think the quest is boring with more than "dullahan boring too many cutscenes lari dumb"

 

No, it's something called the warden of wisdom that the quest may explain after you beat the warden, but I haven't yet. I was defending the quest by saying there was substance (because there was a potentially hard boss) in the quest.

 

Speak on your own behalf please, I quite like Lari as a character.

The concept of having a duo wherein one character who has a high position is actually the less qualified one whereas their assistant/companion is more qualified is a trope that is used in a multitude of different shows, movies and other forms of media. As for her having a breakdown and behaving 'like a child' I will touch on that bellow.

Imagine for a moment that you are a magically gifted elf, who for literally thousands of years (or so she says) has been trying to overcome a great darkness and has continuously failed. That alone would start to slowly mess with your head, making you believe you are not good enough, that you have forsaken your ways and that you really are not as good as you once thought you were. Then suddenly an up-start says they are going to help you, but you have heard of this up-start and think nothing of allowing him to help you, you even make progress with him. Suddenly, this up-start soldier is succeeding through everything in mere moments, which took you millennia to ATTEMPT and fail. You'd be pissed - You would be upset, and act in ways that will come off as childish as well as undeserving of your title of guardian.

The character is well designed, you disliking her only adds to the fact since she isn't exactly meant to be a liked character - Pitied, perhaps but not overly liked due to her flaws.

 

Yeah that sounds fair enough, I'd have hoped for a dungeon or boss fight with Dulluhan as he was hyped up a lot, but maybe that'll come later. I need to finish the quest first and see what a think, thanks for saying btw! I don't mind spoilers ;)

 

at least the Headless History doesn't make you frustrated but fucking Seluc do

 

Based on wynn standards, Lari is vastly more developed as a character than characters like Maxie and Axelius.

Characters tend to have a flaw, a want, and a belief.
A flaw is what is wrong with a characters personality; being too greedy, selfless, selfish, short-tempered. Flaws make characters more human, as well as drive character arcs.
A want is what a character wants; power, money, to stop evil. Wants drive plot
Beliefs is basically what a character believes about the world

Maxie (Envoy I and II) suffers as a character since we almost never see anything interesting about him. Maxie just feels like he's just...there. It feels like Maxie purely exists in the Envoy I and Envoy II to give directions, lore, and then leave the rest to us, making it feel like that he is unnecessary or useless in the quest other than an info dump. We never truly see what Maxie is as a character or what they develop into since he just gives info and exposition dumps; we never develop a bond or relation with him. All we get from Maxie is that he's someone who wants to stop the factory. About the most we actually get about Maxie's past or character is in Hunters Calling, where he feels more connected and necessary to the quest, or Feathers Fly, where he is portrayed as a person trying to do the right thing and genuinely cares about you. If I were to fix anything about the Envoy quests, it would be to make Maxie's poor electromagic skills have a greater impact on his character and story; perhaps give Maxie low self-confidence since he's constantly bullied for being bad at electromagic, but eventually grows as a person once he realizes he has potential in doing something great (take down the factory).
Maxie has a defined belief and want, but doesn't seem to have a flaw

Axelius (Dwarves and Doguns) suffers as a character since he is extremely boring or generic. If you want a generic character, this is your man. Now, there are things that Axelius does better than Maxie; he feels more essential to the plot. We actually see him do things we possibly would not be able to do without his help, such as shutting down the reactor and confronting the king. However, Axelius completely lacks flaws or a personality outside of "Hero / Good Guy". Having no flaws can cause characters to fall flat and often make them two dimensional. A lack of flaws can also impede on developing or expanding on the characters personality.
Axelius has a defined belief and want, but does not at all have a flaw

Lari as a character does have a flaw, want, and belief. We get to see what she believes, in that violence is never the answer, and everything has good in them. We also get to see her major, and extremely defined flaw: Lari is a pacifist at fault and clings onto her beliefs. We see how her flaws and beliefs prevent what she wants (to stop the decay), we see how it harms other people (most notably Dullahan and the player), and we see how it harms herself (often blames herself, questions if she's actually useful, questions what she's doing wrong, often gets angry if she's confused, is envious / jealous that the player is going to replace her, all while feeling like her morals are 100% correct). Hell, her flaws actually feel relatable; imagine doing something that you believe in, and you believe it is the right thing, only for those beliefs to fail over and over again. Lari is by far one of the most developed characters in wynn, in that we see a greater depth to her character since we see how her own beliefs and flaws impact the world around her, as well as herself.
However, what I believe Wynn did wrong about Lari is that they made her WAY too annoying, making most people hate her instead of sympathizing with her.
If we look back, to the older quests, Dullahan came off as a evil character who got beheaded pre-reworked, but became into someone who is justified by his anger due to Lari's stubbornness post-rework. I see this as a drastic improvement towards his character, and ultimately the plot.

I see this as an extreamly good thing in wynns quests. It shows that Wynn is improving, which opens potential for better quests in the future. Now, there are still some bad quests in this update (fucking lexdale witch trials), but overall Feathers Fly and RoL show that Wynn seems to be going into a better direction.

TLDR: Lari > Envoy Maxie + Axelius + Teik + Old Dullahan

 

Yeah, it's human to have flaws, but it's a bit inhuman to have same personality over a thousand years, and even after multiple major screwups.

I once suggested simple solution: just make it that she was asleep for few hundred years. There was too much gap there anyways.

 

just an fyi by saying this you are calling olux swamp good because if not Lari then it wouldn't have been so bad.

 

I love the Olux swamp. Its probably my favourite place in gavel

 

It is good for the first time. Every next time you run through this quest and the infinite amount of cutscenes overwhelms you, you lose more and more sanity.
Just please make them skippable this is really painful.

 

lari is the only character in wynncraft that isnt cardboard. just the fact that shes so controversial is a good thing because its literally the first time people have been able to write about a character in a way that isnt completely black or white. calling her a bad character because you dont like her (which is absolutely acceptable btw) is incredibly shallow

its a very common trope in fiction for characters who live on for a very long time to have their own ideals be their downfall

beliefs and ideals are things you cant really change without some major shock/trauma, and especially so when they arent inherently wrong
her issue was thinking that doing the right thing could never be wrong, and by the time she started to realize that wasnt the case she just turned a blind eye, i think mostly as a way to cope for all her mistakes (and lets be honest her pre-ftl mental could never be able to shoulder that much responsibility)

it literally took her failing at her job multiple times, her boyfriend and the entire province of gavel dying because of her, and orphion, who needs asssistance asap, telling her to fuck off repeatedly to only start making her doubt herself a little until the player and the guardian of the forest came in and dealt the final blow
i do agree that we shouldve been shown a bigger impact on her from dullahans death but thats mostly an issue because 1. headless history is self contained and the contents of the quest dont link directly with the quests after it and 2. the questline is way too short

so yea its almost realistic for her to keep the same mindset for so long and thats what makes her interesting. if she was just asleep or something itd be a lot less impactful and it would make less sense for her to be like this

yes please oh my god this is easily the worst quest to play through

 

Taproot, Headless Hunt and Finding the Light are really good in my opinion because they justify my evergrowing hatred for Lari. I am so relating to Dullahan, especially after AHH