SPOILER Rhythm Of The Seasons/rally Discussion

So, a lot of you have probably heard of Rhythm of the Seasons, or ROTS, and I was curious what y'all's thoughts are

Testing I've done with it:
- it procs upon landing, not mid-air
- it is based on caster health
- 5 block range

My concerns:

• Ok, no way the base damage is staying the same. But, if it remains competitive in the meta damage-wise, warriors will probably not use any other spear, which is concerning.
• This has the potential to basically turn warrior into mage, and would allow builders to build warrior sustainless (A weird way to fix warrior's sustain problem. Not the ID itself, but the idea of it being on a single item, that's a spear, that's pretty easy to abuse)
• The weapon only has an int req, meaning it can be used in basically any warrior spell build, effectively turning it into old keeper's ring, but on-demand, and as an off-hand, with little to stop people from switching to it to abuse the healing.
• I am worried that this single item will irrevocably change the warrior meta, even if it is made impotent as a main-hand, which is unhealthy.
• It seems like a strange way to address the "buff warrior" requests made over the years. Granted, I don't really know if I am truly against it. Warrior has been needing some oomph, and ROTS may just provide it. It just seems like a weird way to fix warrior

Anyways, I wanted to hear y'all's thoughts on this.

 

yeah, i honestly don't like it.

i'm all for helping warrior because, let's be honest, it needs it.

this just doesn't seem like the way to do it.

based on how absurdly strong the major id is alone (effectively giving warrior 5 spells, as movement spell acts as a heal spell as well), it will become nearly critical as at least a secondary in most builds. exceptions are builds that already have absurd sustain, like hpr guardian or undying heavy melee-esque stuff.

however, for other builds, trying to reach that 70 int req is gonna be really tempting, just for this free pass on building any health sustain at all.

except for the fact that no-int spell exists. have fun not having access to this hahahahaha.


also, the spear itself is incredibly. it is either going to be nerfed into being singly used as a secondary, or if it stays the same or a little below its current level, it will be used over any other spear excluding mythics.

it even outclasses some mythics. lower req, high base damage, higher mana, more health bonus than idol ALONG with the major id.


it is either going to be nerfed into obscurity or is going to literally define warrior as a class, neither of which i can see being healthy for the game.


edit: i didn't bother mentioning that melee builds get shafted here because i assumed it was pretty obvious that a 70 int req kind of killed any hopes of melee. haha funny water melee. and yes, locking this out of melee builds is also a problem.

 

Im personally not a fan. I know i say buff warrior a lot, but if it manifests in this way, I don't want it. Its literally a brainless offhand weapon, a worse OKR but only for warrior and its hilariously unhealthy, buffing spell builds while leaving melee builds in the dirt.

 

This tops nighthawk and what it did for archer in the previous hero beta imo. Nerf the flip out of it with super high requirements or simply decrease the effectiveness of the major ID. Of course it should be subject to rigorous testing but based on the raw values of the stats listed it's just way too much.

 

Ehh..

I’d say decrease the damage by alot for use as a situational secondary

Or turn it into an armor lol

 

I can see that, only as Oinuk said, it would absolutely define the meta/warrior as a class as an off-hand. Like, no more need for sustain on warrior, just use ROTS

Similar problem with armor.

 

So it’s bound to be a “slap it cause it’s good” item :/

I’m looking at you nighthawk

 

I honestly like it overall. It gives Warrior a more supportive role, similar to Guardian. I like the idea of Warrior being a hybrid support/tank class. Also its called Rhythm Of The Seasons which is a just killer name.
I would change it a bit though.
For one, remove it's self-healing. It shouldnt be an old keeper's ring and definitely cannot be abused by using it as a secondary. This would make its only upside be supportive.
And for two, give charge a damage penalty. Im pretty sure i use charge for damage more often than others, but i definitely dont think it should be harmless.

 

Charge being harmless for a heal is strong already though. That’d be buffing an ID that’s already crazy strong, it’s reasonable imo for charge to deal no damage.

(Also, it’ll only be on ROTS so you can not have it if you don’t want, or use it as an offhand, and almost no warriors use charge for damage. Charge also does practically negligible damage compared to uppercanceling)

 

I hate the way they have been addressing warrior.
Its as if they are tip toeing around the issue, hoping to avoid actually addressing the classes problems. I was about to make a thread about this, but in regards to the new uppercut changes.

Strob light, charge giving resistance, bash giving strength, and now rally along with the uppercut changes this update, have mostly been competele failures and a insulting salutation to "buff warrior"

What boggles me is the community has suggested some pretty understandable fixes, like make bashes crowd control better, making uppercut more accessible or even selvut suggesting we make charge debuff mobs instead of buff us but instead of any of these changes, we can seem half thought out effects and bug fix items.

 

Personally, I think the healing effect is cool for warrior. It gives the class a whole new type of playstyle.

However, I do think that the negative ID's aren't harsh enough for the benefits that the weapon gives. Maybe make requirements a bit more strict to ensure that players stick to a more support role instead of an all-arounder role. Or maybe make negative ID's more harsh. Or just change this to an armour item so players who want to play this style are forced to stick to it.

 

Something that forces players to actually use this as a support item and not a secondary would be nice.

 

You're misconstruing the intent here. The changes aren't meant to be the long-awaited Warrior Buffs, they're just...changes, and additions. We didn't add Rally to buff Warrior, we added it to give Warriors a new option for a Major ID like has been planned from the beginning of Major IDs.

As for Rhythm of the Seasons, it's obvious that I overtuned this to hell when I was making it, and we're looking over the stats, but I think you all are panicking like crazy over Rally's actual power. Why not give it a try ingame and see how it performs instead of just looking at it on paper and saying "WHOA WHAT THE HECK"?

 

I shall try it.
By the way, may I suggest - hp?
Seems like an odd suggestion, but if you make it have a lot of -hp, but high defense and element defense, it ends up in a situation where switching off it causes you to be missing a large amount of your health while holding it should be balanced out by the defense. Giving it water damage could make up for the loss in health healed.
This way it doesn't get the title of sidearm.

 

Just looks like King of Hearts but for Warrior. Maybe put Rally on Armors/Accessories/etc so that it could be more versatile, like Nighthawk. I don't see this being game breaking at all, but also really really strong since you'd just have to vertically charge and land constantly to heal. Maybe -mana regen or +charge cost would work to balance this, but it's ok. It's a cool addition to Warrior.

 

That's come up in discussion.

On an unrelated note, translate.

 

I looked up the lyrics.
I would have never guessed this spear was a reference to...
A French song?

And now you have me listening to songs by this band.

 

Honestly more than anything I feel like this highlights some other issues: water and intelligence are too strongly tied to spell builds in general, to the point where it’s really hard to create powerful items specifically for water-focused builds without them being slapped onto every spell build, and major IDs in general are too slappable without really needing to invest into. The first one is slowly being addressed (Ahem, Cardiac Brainwash), but I’m not sure about the second.

As for the spear itself, I think it desperately needs an agility penalty and a maybe nerf to mana or hp regen; given how Agility is increasingly being tied to -2nd spell costs, I’m a little worried how powerful it might be if you combined Agility’s survivability and -2nd spell costs with this spear. Beyond that, though, I’m not sure how strong it is; it seems absolutely broken for keeping your health topped off, but without access to -2nd spell cost boosts, the base charge will be capped as two mana at best, with costs increasing every time you use it. That means it’ll take 16 mana to heal 50% of your health in a pinch, and with the -health regen it seems like as a primary weapon it might actually be balanced, although as a secondary it seems busted. It’s effectively an extreme version of the Slider issue; an item is average as a primary but extremely good as a secondary, and you can’t really nerf the weapon as a secondary without making it a bad primary. The main difference is that slider’s usefulness in battle is subjective, while this is much less so

 

Personally, I think just pushing the base damage down and giving it -hp instead of +hp should manage. (though I also am not a fan of the +Def personally)

 

Alright, I just did EO and LI with ROTS and I honestly still don't know how to feel. ROTS will definitely allow sustainless warrior builds (At least in its current state).

On one hand, that's awesome, I enjoyed the playstyle (especially since it encouraged charge strafing), and think that warrior deserves an off-hand (or even main-hand) like that. On another hand this is a huge change to the warrior playstyle and building (again, depending on how it gets nerfed). I still don't know if I truly think it is good or bad though. I mean, as of now, I agree with Oinuk, this item will define warrior as a class, if not as a main hand, then as an off-hand.

I also can't see any reason ROTS would not be used or at least considered when making warrior builds.
However, I will say, I can see ROTS not being used for speedruns, as an off-hand at least, since it is not as spammy as mage heal, and may reduce dps. On the other hand, if used correctly, warrior is tanky enough to trade hits, get off a rally charge, then go back to a main-hand to get back to full or decent health.
I would say self-sustaining builds don't need ROTS, but rally is so good it would be foolish not to also use ROTS.

I don't know, this is why I made this thread, I'm still making up my mind.