Any Class Help What’s Good Damage?

what is bad, decent, and high damage for every class?
I’m gonna get an archer, assassin, and shaman to endgame soon and wanted to get educated on what good spell damage is.

Warrior:
Bad: 12k uppers Decent: 14k Awesome: 16k+

Mage:
Bad: less than 14k meteors Decent: 14k Awesome: 16k+

Archer:
Awesome: 13k+ bombs (I don’t know bad or decent though)

Shaman:
Good: 15k+ boosted Auras

Assassin:
Good: 8k+

(the archer, assassin, and shaman numbers are educated guess, but those are the ones I need filled in

Also I’m using “bad” damage to mean the lowest possible damage I feel good about dealing. And the Warrior and mage numbers are just based off my experience)

 

most offensive WFAs find themselves near 9k bombs; noob defensive WFA is 8-9, non-WFAs are generally 10+.

idk ab other classes but every archer mythic should be separated from the non-mythic cohort since their damage ranges are drastically different; 13k+ is almost unachievable for most legendaries yet ends up being mediocre for spring etc.

________________________________

wfa cryo finds 10k unboosted; i would assume the same comparative deduction is valid as with archer

decent is 7k i'd say but my experience with assassin is to be desired :l

 

assassin spins are usually around 5k-7k, 8k is very high

 

Please don't use boosted numbers. Ever.

6k+ is accurate, maybe even 7k+. Your view is probably distorted by being new and using Black as your baseline.

Depends on the weapon tbh?


I hate generalizations like these honestly, there's a lot of factors. Don't use mythics as your baseline, don't use ETW as your baseline, just stop trying to make a baseline and just put in the time to learn basic logic with items. This won't be necessary.

 

Thanks for the help :)

And I just wanted those numbers not necessarily for baselines, but for reference. For instance, knowing that 12k uppers is on the low end helps me fairly evaluate a build, even if it is tanky. Like for instance it would be good to know that 5k uppers isn’t really viable for solo play no matter how tanky it is, whereas a 12k uppers build can make do.

(Also, I shouldn’t have used “good” to describe archer, assassin and shaman damages since I was using mythics as a baseline)

 

Imo you shouldn't rank them in bad / decent / good, but rather in a range of common damages.
These ranges are excluding mythics, powder specials (armor and weapon).
I won't do warrior as I don't play it.

Spellspam / steal (Reasonable spellcosts and Sustain)

Archer (no nighthawk)
Bombs 10k -15k
Storms: 25k-35k

Archer (Nighthawk)
Storms: 20k-30k

Shaman (unboosted)
Aura: 8k-10k

Assasin (unboosted)
Spins: 6k-8.5k

Mage (this might not be correct)
Meteor: 14k-17k

Melee (unboosted)

• Heavy melee: 8k-12k
• Rawstack: ~15k I recon
• Tierstack: 19k-31k (Limbo is an exception)
• Cstack: 20k-30k (Skien's and Overdrive are an exception)

That's all I got for now, somebody make corrections and add hybird damages and / or mythics (although these vary).

 

What about Multihit

 

i thought mage hits 14 a lot more easily than archer hits 10, are you sure these ranges are consistent?

atlas inc discord said 12-14 a while ago (i think the exact person was Verle), is yours the updated figure? im trolling dw ab it

 

You're right that this is useful, but other people are also right that it could use some better stratification. I'll post my thoughts later today.

 

Yeah, I categorized it poorly.
(I also wasn’t anticipating so many responses, lol, so I didn’t think much of it)

 

Oh no I guess I wasn't clear enough, these are not avarage damages, I made the general builds for archer (gales, olily, cluster), took around the lowest damages (that you get with gales) and the highest (cluster for example) and these are the bounds, these are not the avarage build damage these are the damages between different builds with different levels of tankiness and different weapons (that I find reasonable).

10k is gales twa
14k is cluster twf
I find wfa gales without virtuoso to be incredibly weak, and it does not make up for it in piercing so I did no include that as a lower damage.

For mage I did not test builds these are more from memory so that's why I said it could be incorrect

 

can't imagine what your standards were to exclude rte/hellstrand but somehow find 12k meteors on mage

 

Assasin is measured by spin, that's just a general rule of thumb so builds are more easily comparable in conversation.

By all means you are welcomed to correct me I tried to think of like wfa stuff that's still playable if you find it too low I can up this to 14k

 

I think you meant spin there

 

16k wfa nepta
14.5k wfa morro

 

Thanks corrected

Thx bb updating

 

assuming we r ignoring gma and divzer, archer legends r actually pretty close if not higher than mythics dmg wise
cluster deals a lot more dmg than spring and strati
thunder hive is even higher than cluster
ttide does sliiiiightly lower bomb dmg compared to spring with higher arrowstorm dmg cuz no -thunder bs
gales also does a tiny bit lower than strati without the -hp bs

for reference:
cluster: https://wynndata.tk/s/yVSqhQ
strati: https://wynndata.tk/s/YF5ToU
spring: https://wynndata.tk/s/58q3o9
ttide: https://wynndata.tk/s/ax2j1f (note that ttide does more arrowstorm dmg than spring cuz spring has a retarded amount of -thunder dmg and shits on ur dex)
thunder powdered hive: https://wynndata.tk/s/DkmNLA
thunder powdered freedom: https://wynndata.tk/s/l6mh7a
gales: https://wynndata.tk/s/jwu85h

in fact i would say archer is the class where the legends are the most damaging with respect to the class's mythics

also measuring archer dmg by bomb isn't as good as arrowstorm cuz now especially with nighthawk arrowstorm should be ur main source of dmg

 

ok im gonna try to be calm in my response but my initial reaction is YOU ARE SO CRINGE

you can't compare weapons by their unsupported dps alone. there are major factors that come into play in the context of actual classbuilding that you don't recognise in your references:

• if a weapon has more base damage, then it benefits more from any % ids that boost damage, since those ids affect upon the base damage multiplicatively (ik they're additive with each other but its their interaction with the weapon that matters). this is the most true for archer since it has the highest base damages across the five classes and therefore has the most to gain from % bonuses.

• there are other factors associated with weapons that indirectly contribute to its actual damage, like mana regen and spell costs. if a weapon has them, then you don't have to invest as much of it in the build itself, and therefore you have more freedom to seek damage options. consider spring: after dhy neck and any single mr item, spring has 6 item slots free to build purely for damage. it's also a lot more sp-friendly than any other endgame mythic bow (quote this if you need me to explain why this is the case), so it doesn't need much sp support either. your reference to spring doesn't account for either of these factors, which is why you perceive spring to be so much worse than it actually is.

thunder hive is bad enough that i haven't heard of it

not even close; ttide actually has trouble beating rte since it only matches rte's baseline whilst missing 3mr and access to curse.

bar the weakest two mythics, every endgame archer mythic sits noticeably above the legendaries

nighthawk isn't standard. yes it's strong, but you can't forget that by running it you're also sacrificing a helmet slot which could've been spared for aphotic, bpc, cumulonimbus, sizzling shawl, or unravel. it's worth stating also that nighthawk builds are vastly different from non-nighthawk builds for reasons you outlined yourself.

in the context of a nighthawk archer, i can understand using arrow storm as a damage reference (i still prefer bomb, but that's a personal thing). but outside of that, bomb's still the standard as far as i'm aware. you'll notice also that whenever nighthawk is used the build is explicitly labelled a nighthawk build; it's not overwhelming enough to define the archer meta itself, it just happens to be a significant portion of it.



i'm going to be specific about what i think actual damages for each bow are

rte, hellstrand, ttide: 9k-10k
gales, hive: 10k-12k
strati, ignis: 11k-13k
cluster, olily: 11k-14k
spring: 12k-15k
freedom: 15k-18k
divzer: ~18k
gma: ~19k

i'm not saying all of these values are correct but i think i'm quite close, despite them being markedly different from you seem to claim.

let's see what you contest.

 

i never said that archer legends are more damaging than mythics in general. I'm just saying they aren't THAT far behind. Like for example if u replace a typical strati build with gales, yea ofc the dmg drops but not by a WHOLE lot

and also when i say this i'm comparing it with other classes. For example warrior doesn't have a lot of legends that come close to its respective mythic damages. tidebinder is ok but idol just dwarfs it. Ignition is ehhh and zephra also doesn't sit super high in the dmg department

also i don't understand how thunder hive is bad given it has higher dmg than cluster, has mana regen, and requires 0 sp

lastly it would be nice if u could give a build example that has the bomb damages u mentioned for all those bows just for my reference

 

there's a reason freedom is busted to high heaven rn and it's because it nearly matches divzer damage with 120agi
we can agree on this point if you exclude freedom from your argument too

for other classes it feels like you're making valid comparisons (eg. tideb to idol both being spell water spears), but you can't really say that legendary bows are close by comparing cluster to spring/ignis/strati. cluster simply supports a more offensive playstyle. when you make comparisons by element you'll notice that ignis markedly beats hellstrand, spring markedly beats ttide/rte, and divzer/gma markedly beat cluster/olily.

gales comes close to strati bc strati is forced into a defensive playstyle by its agi req whilst gales has more freedom across the spectrum; it's true that offensive gales can match strati but when gales is run with a bit more agi it kinda loses out on 1-2k bombs.

you lose the master hive slot which could've been used on intensity, prowess, bpc or gaea-hewn

that would take too long for me since i don't have experience with every bow, so i was hoping that you'd pick out specific claims that you disagreed with.