Info The Dungeon Feedback Thread

The Dungeon Feedback Thread​

Hey everyone, the Quality Assurance team has decided to make another thread asking for your feedback on the game. Today, we'd like to talk about dungeons.

As we have a smaller number of dungeons and we'd like to start a discussion out of this topic, we've decided not to use a form but rather just ask you a few questions and let everyone discuss their different opinions on dungeons in the replies.

The questions we'd like you to answer are:

What's your favorite dungeon? What section of its gameplay makes it special for you?

What's your least favorite dungeon? What makes it not an enjoyable experience for you?

What's your opinion on dungeon parties and the big XP gain that comes from them?

What could be done to make dungeons feel more replayable and interactive?

Please do not limit the discussion to these questions, feel free to talk about other aspects of dungeons.

We'd like to remind you that this is NOT a place for flamewars and anger, the purpose of this thread is to hear the community's opinions to hopefully improve Wynncraft in the future and make it a better experience for everyone!

Thank you for participating.
- The Quality Assurance Team

 

@Shots your time

 

Favorite: old csst
Why: it fast
Least favorite: FF
Why: it slow
Dps?: gets super boring and repetitive and it’s one of the only ways to get xp other than quests and grinding, and most levels have quest droughts
Dungeons replay ability: each dungeon should have more than just a couple of weapons and armor. Maybe it can give away stuff like food and scrolls for dungeon items. Also maybe you can upgrade your dungeon weapons the more time you complete it so it’s not all just about xp

 

What's your favorite dungeon? What section of its gameplay makes it special for you? EO. Aside from mirror room (fuck mirror room all my homies hate mirror room) none of the rooms make you feel suffering, while in every other dungeon, at least 3 rooms are pain. Also cool boss and cool parkour, though 4 parkours would have been better. Sad that it got nerfed.

What's your least favorite dungeon? What makes it not an enjoyable experience for you? My least favorite dungeon overall is Decrepit Sewers, though part of that is because of how it ruins dungeons for new players. Also, the gameplay, if it can even be called that, is the epitome of boring. It's like whoever made it took a dungeon concept ("hey guys i think there should be some combat, parkour, and boss fighting at the minimum in a dungeon") and literally used no creativity. Combat -> Parkour -> Combat -> Boss, unless I forgot something. Lame as shit. Gameplay-wise, Lost Sanctuary is by far the worst. It is the exact same token room like 4 times, and a shitty boss niche. Overall a shitty, badly designed dungeon.

What's your opinion on dungeon parties and the big XP gain that comes from them? Too strong. Definitely needs a nerf. Either with an XP rate inverse to the number of players who complete it simultaneously, or just a raw nerf, but that would hurt solo runners. Also, I'm assuming that part of the reason Glowbulb was allowed to ruin guilds for so long was due to forgetting it existed due to the complete dominance of CUR parties for endgame leveling.
Another solution would be adding more party-splitting mechanics. Even if party-splitting randomized rooms are added, adding mechanics that require everyone to do stuff would greatly help. A room that changes based on the number of people present, where it would split the dungeon into many groups to complete different (or singular, if only one person running) objectives could be cool.

What could be done to make dungeons feel more replayable and interactive? More randomized rooms such as Sand-Swept Tomb has. Alternatively, add alternative routes for things like parkours, because some players are really against parkour. (personally I like parkour but there are at least 10 threads on why "fuck parkour it is too hard that my trained goldfish cannot do it please nerf!!! 1!!!!"). Adding cool ingredients (either bulk t0 or fairly expensive t3) to shops would provide incentive to do those dungeons that you completely forgot existed (looking at you, Infested Pit).



Additional Comments:

-PLEASE do not make good ping a requirement in completing dungeons. Unless the parkour system for CUR was intended to make the lag from a CUR party weed out players with bad ping, which is just evil, the parkour still needs decent ping to be able to complete, which is really sad.

-If alternative ways around parkour are added, make spells disabled in parkour, such as the AJB parkour.

-Turn off horses in dungeons. Please only do this if you remove the one block jump at the end of the bridge in EO. I hate that. It is the only reason I use horses in dungeons.

-Use slime blocks, ice, water, etc. more in dungeon parkours, instead of ping-based mechanics.

-Even though LI is not technically a dungeon, I'm going to put it here because it's pretty similar: YahyaBot sucks. It is the only reason that you cannot use parties in LI, and why LI takes so damn long. Either rework it to not take so long or replace it with a downright better boss. Also, if YahyaBot is kept, increase the final stage's health to at least 15000 health, so multiple players can get tokens. I'd put more thoughts on LI but I'm too damn tired.

-Ice Barrows sucks and I hate it. I get that it exists solely to teach about shitty spell conversions fuck fuck fuck I hate them, but that could have easily been done in some other fashion.... Maybe a quest? You know? The "Elemental" one? The one that misleads all the new players? Yeah? Yeah, that shitty quest. But please rework Ice Barrows to not suck. I did not enjoy a single stage in this dungeon, except for the ice parkour, but that honestly needs to be longer.

-Before adding/reworking existing dungeons, please at least make an attempt to fix Underworld Crypt and the corrupted variant. The dungeon itself is incredibly easy, but apparently the dungeon's gimmick was to make whether or not you beat the dungeon a coinflip on whether or not Charon gets stuck in the wall. Great game design. Shitty boss aside, the survival stages need a lot of fucking help. Namely all the ways you can cheat them.

 

uh

 

What's your favorite dungeon? What section of its gameplay makes it special for you?
I like EO, it’s boss fight is one of the best fights ever, however the 4th phase I feel shouldn’t be there cause it just doesn’t feel like a good end to the fight. I also like how the dungeon is pretty fast but hard enough for players to actually pay attention. The thing I’d change about the main dungeon is probs the miniboss spawn rates, for some reason it takes like 30 seconds for the miniboss to spawn.
What's your least favorite dungeon? What makes it not an enjoyable experience for you?
I don’t like Lost Sanc, it’s like a really boring dungeon. It’s pretty much just token room, token room, token room, and a ‘boss’. It’s just really boring to do in general.
What's your opinion on dungeon parties and the big XP gain that comes from them?
I’d rather have dungeons be used for items first, and XP second, I’m fine with dungeon parties existing, I just want grindspots to be better for XP, and dungeons give both XP and Items. Pretty much just multiple options for players.
What could be done to make dungeons feel more replayable and interactive?
1. Dungeon rewards are wayyyyyy to expensive, FF is super long and pretty boring (70% of it is token rooms), so it makes the player have to replay the dungeon, probably making them bored of it.
2. I would really like for dungeon boss fights to be much more intense, and maybe the dungeon main would be in the backround. This would make them like EO, and that’s pretty nice. Easily speedrunable, but requires skill to defeat. That said, I don’t think the bossfights should be as hard as EO, I want the game to have difficulty spikes at dungeon levels, it’s just really satisfying to completely dominate a fight you really struggled with. Games like Terraria already do this very well.
3. Keys need to be easier to obtain, the main dungeons are fine, but the courrupted dungeons are really annoying. I’d much rather just make it have an actual key guardian that won’t drop a broken key.
4. Every dungeon needs to be unique, and it should be really obvious how their different and harder than the last one.

 

Favorite: Fallen Factory
Why: I love the build style and the dialogue. Gameplay wise it's maybe not as good as EO but it's still a fun dungeon
Least favorite: Lost Sanctuary
Why: It's the same thing for almost every room and the boss.
Dungeon Parties: I would like to see dungeon parties maybe have more co-op then just have two thirds of the group hugging the exit while five people are doing what you're supposed to do.
What could be done to make dungeons replayable: Two things. 1: you make the rooms change like in SST. this way you get a different experience each time. 2: add ingredients into dungeon shops. this would give a reward that would be useful after each attempt and give HHIC/HICH people something to spend their boss drops on.
Corrupted dungeons: I feel that these could be repurposed into extremely difficult level 100+ dungeons to make space for gavel dungeons. This would give a bunch of new endgame challenges to people and allow for Gavel dungeons to not be inferior to corrupted dungeons. (come on we need a realm of light dungeon soon)

 

What's your favorite dungeon? What section of its gameplay makes it special for you? - Does Eldritch Outlook and its incredible boss fight count? If not, I'll actually have to go with Sandswept Tomb for being fairly challenging and having the most replayability.

What's your least favorite dungeon? What makes it not an enjoyable experience for you? - Corrupted Underworld Crypt is my least favorite, but since my issues with it relate to its bugs, I guess the Lost Sanctuary may be a better answer, as the whole creeper-hunting segment is too repetitive.

What's your opinion on dungeon parties and the big XP gain that comes from them? - The concept of dungeon parties, where groups of players need to come together for greater rewards, is amazing in theory and encourages cooperation. In reality, they're probably unhealthy for the game and can flat out ruin new players' experiences IMO if they rely on dungeon parities rather than actual content on their first class.

It would be cool of dungeon parties gave less XP than they do now, but give special rewards to large groups, but idk if that is even possible.

What could be done to make dungeons feel more replayable and interactive? - More random variation in dungeons. Basically what the sand-swept tomb does now, minus splitting the party up. I'd also be fine with making dungeons harder, although that may be an unpopular opinion.

 

I literally couldn't agree more.

 

i was saving a spot because i am scum of the earth lol

 

Favorite: Eldritch Outlook and Fallen factory
Reason for eo: The build style of it, the feeling you get that you're actually going through it and the eye which is one of the best bosses
Reason for ff: It has a very unique style and it feels very immersive & intractable
Least favorite: I would say undergrowth ruins because of the laggy parkour but i enjoy other parts, so i would say decrepit sewers
Reason: Even though its meant to be easy and simple its a too simple & plain its just collect tokens, do easy parkour, collect tokens and kill a boss
Opinion on parties: They are fine, the only problem i have with them is how they can easily skip a lot of levels
What could be done:
1: Make keys less difficult to obtain, If you don't want to spend emeralds you need to spend like 10 minutes to an hour to find the key guardian and if you're doing corrupted dungeons you have to find many nii guardians or golden avias which are rare, Also if you want to get an item you will need to do that process like 5 times
2: Change/Remove the token rooms, They are the most boring part of dungeons
3: Make having multiple people more important, You can solo most dungeons with ease so you don't need to get other players

 

What's your favorite dungeon? What section of its gameplay makes it special for you?
As a whole, Fallen Factory. It just... Outdungeons the other dungeons. The dungeon actually feels like a journey through the building, unlike all other dungeons (EO does it but not as well). The battle parts are not bad, and the Siege Engine is interesting as it rises through the ground after the battle has begun. The two main points why the dungeon is my favorite are the conveyor belt and the rotating cog parkour, though both could be improved. Navigating the cog parkour is very unclear, and you can skip many major parts without movement spells, but at the same time that gives it more of a feel like you're actually navigating through a mechanism, not some premade course. The Antikythera Supercomputer character made it all the more enjoyable.

Other ones I'd like to point out where Eldritch Outlook, Undergrowth Ruins and Galleon's Graveyard. Both UR and GG aren't otherwise that outstanding, but they do have some certain mechanics that set them above the rest (UR parkour and ship defense). EO is overrall very well made having the best room and boss designs, and is very close to the number one spot for me. FF still wins with the storytelling and the general experience the dungeon gives.

What's your least favorite dungeon? What makes it not an enjoyable experience for you?

Lost Sanctuary. Repetitive mechanics where you just have to hunt some mobs, two basic parkours and a boring (but unique-ish and interesting for the earlygame) boss.

Infested pit is also terrible with the most generic theme possible and very basic mechanics. The battle rooms just exist with around 3 different enemies and the parkours are just "hold W lol". The boss is decent, but nothing in the dungeon is really above that level.

What's your opinion on dungeon parties and the big XP gain that comes from them?

I think they should stay, because they are a much more fun way to level up in the endgame than just slapping tens of thousands of mobs.

They do have some negative points though. Efficently running corrupted dungeons for XP requires a party as the keys are such a chore to get, and having a group would feel like it has a point more if the dungeons and bosses were actually really hard, which they are not apart from EO.

What could be done to make dungeons feel more replayable and interactive?

Like in FF, make it actually feel like you're travelling through the dungeon (EO does this but not as well as FF) and make the storytelling enjoyable, once again like in FF.

Another one that makes dungeons replayable, presented well in UR and GG (and SST I guess?) are completely unique mechanics that require playing differently than you thought you would in a dungeon.

 

What's your favorite dungeon? What section of its gameplay makes it special for you?
Decrepit Sewers and its corrupted variant by far.
- Basically identical to skeleton dungeon
- Only takes like three seconds to finish
- Corrupted dungeon music!! (Insanity)
- It's really really short.
- DS has that cool xp necklace
- Yep, short

What's your least favorite dungeon? What makes it not an enjoyable experience for you?
IB/CIB, parkour and the minibosses are a pain. Ties into the below point.

What's your opinion on dungeon parties and the big XP gain that comes from them?
I think dungeon meta is the worst "xp meta" to happen to Wynncraft. It cheapens the value of dungeons, turning each section into something that's completely glossed over.
Dungeons are just glorified grindspots for the vast majority of players.
I doubt much will change though, dungeon bomb meta is good for keeping wynn alive

What could be done to make dungeons feel more replayable and interactive?
- Rewards for completing dungeons in a certain time?
- Challenges with varying rewards depending on how well you complete them!!!!
- Give all dungeons the "CSST treatment", punishing spamming without interaction.
- Delete Elemental Exercise and rework ice barrows to PROPERLY teach stuff instead of the frustrating excuse that IB is for a conversion lesson. Seriously.

 

Favorite Dungeon: I’d say Eldritch Outlook; though the dungeon is a bit short, the boss is unique and interesting, and I like to see more bosses like the Eye in the future.

Least Favorite Dungeon; I’d say Corrupted Undergrowth Ruins; I’ve run the dungeon once, and after about 20 or so minutes, I used /kill because the parkour sections were something I really didn’t like, and I hope they would be made easier in the next update, the parkour discouraged me doing the dungeon in the future.

What’s my opinion about dungeon parties and the experience that comes from them: I could see dungeon parties as a way to get free experience quickly in case one gets bored with other aspects of the game.

What could be done to make dungeons feel more replayable and interactive: I feel like more dungeons should have branching paths, the spawn rate of corrupted dungeon guardians should be buffed slightly, and there should be more ways to get Uth runes than using the altars in Corkus and Aldorei.

 

What's your favorite dungeon? What section of its gameplay makes it special for you?:
EO hands down. The reason behind this is quite simple. It is (or was) the first raid dungeon in the game.

What's your least favorite dungeon? What makes it not an enjoyable experience for you?:
Infested Pit. It just somehow feels like a few tight spaces connected however I suppose it was intentional as it fits spider-type tunnels. So it propably comes down to my prefences.

What's your opinion on dungeon parties and the big XP gain that comes from them?:
Would be better if dungeons had much higher difficulty cap considering people can just afk and get insane amounts of xp.

What could be done to make dungeons feel more replayable and interactive?:
Something extra. Through that I mean a random chance type thing that would drop/happen (for example special cosmetics/some kind of trophy or even special fabled item) in for example 1/9 of dungeon completitions.

 

I'm not even going to answer most of the questions, though I will say EO is my favourite.

I hate the dungeon design in Wynn, they are boring linear rooms designed to be a grind fest to give you xp and items. Frankly there is nothing wrong with that, but... I don't like it at all.

I would like to see a complete reimgaining of the dungeons. I would like each dungeon to basicially be a mini metroidvania. Each one throwing you into an open space, with one clear objective as soon as you walk in the main chamber(I don't mean getting to the end of the dungeon, I mean something like a big ass door, which the whole dungeons goal is to unlock said door.)
That being said, the side chambers will all have different puzzles or challenges, once competele each one futhurs the overall objective.

When this gets interesting is lock and key machines, aswell as making the main goal of the dungeon one big puzzle.

An example I always think of is a sewer, where you raise the water level to gain accesses to higher floors, your goal being make it to the top. However sense you are rising the water level, you are actively making it harder to explore certain areas, or pherapes you needed to flood a room to make a certain challenge possible.

------

With all that being said, the replayablity of these dungeon starts to come down to mastery. Unlike our current dungeons, these could be done rather fast if you figure out the quikest possible way to actually competele a dungeon. Meaning running one over and over gives the benefit of improving your mastery, and finding new tricks to do it quicker.

 

What's your favorite dungeon? What section of its gameplay makes it special for you?

i really like new CSST, Fallen Factory (only done it once however), and EO. It’s hard to place one above the others. The reason why I like them varies a bit, though. For CSST (or just sst) I really enjoy the replayability of the dungeon and how many things are different each run while still being challenging at level. I like Fallen Factory because the dungeon feels integrated into a single stage that you progress through for the most part. There aren’t very many parts of FF (except for winston maybe) that feel disconnected from the rest of the dungeon. In addition to this it’s very unique compared to the rest of the dungeons. And I like EO because, well. EO. It’s also a smooth run though the dungeon, but I think other people have put into words why the dungeon is good better than I can.

What's your least favorite dungeon? What makes it not an enjoyable experience for you?

my least favorite dungeon is definitely lost sanctuary/CLS. CUC is a good dungeon if you don’t do the time skips and the boss doesn’t get stuck, but there are almost no redeeming qualities about lost sanctuary other than looking up at the tree from inside the sections is cool. i think i enjoyed the Animal dungeon much much more than it’s modern counterpart. the five(?) stages where it’s just the same thing is really boring. the rest of the dungeon is pretty good, though, except maybe the boss fight? i like the idea but it’s just... boring

What's your opinion on dungeon parties and the big XP gain that comes from them?

I don’t mind dungeon parties much. But, I think that the amount of XP you can get from them is ridiculous. There’s also the separate Glowbulb Cave thing, but I feel like the XP gain should go down (on some non linear scale) depending on how many people are inside it OR make XP bonus not work or have a hard cap in dungeons. honestly i’m voting for the second one. maybe if you made hunted mode the only way to get an xp boost, perhaps? ;D

What could be done to make dungeons feel more replayable and interactive?

i think that CSST (and sst) was taking a step in the right direction. i also think that another thing to add is parkour that isn’t just >jump across this please<. using blocks that make movement abnormal is very fun. ice, slime, etc.

EDIT: more profession related rewards too! these should be purchased with the item you get one of every dungeon imo, and give either a lot of low level ingredients or 1-2 high level ingredients.

 

What's your favorite dungeon? What section of its gameplay makes it special for you?
EO, by far. Let’s run through every room just to talk about it.

Room 1 has a fun gimmick of jumping between different sides of a mirror... and that’s pretty much it. Honestly I think this is easily the worst room in the dungeon. The gimmick doesn’t really make the token grinding any more fun.

Room 2 (AKA the one room everyone rides a horse through) is honestly probably one of my favorite non-boss areas in the game. It’s a fantastic builds and the gimmick of knocking enemies off the catwalk is surprisingly satisfying to do. It’s just a shame literally nobody actually does it the normal way.

Room 3 is a miniboss mini gauntlet. It’s fun, every boss has a unique gimmick to them, fuck the one in the bottom right corner though. Beyond that, it’s indefinitely better than the normal “grind 10 token” sections, and I really hope to see more non-final bosses and minibosses added to future dungeons

Room 4 is parkour that at this point I’ve done so many times it’s basically committed to memory. It’s a cool gimmick but tbh it’s definitely more of a one-off feature.

The Eye itself is cool and easily the best fight in the game, but I’ve already said my piece on it. My only major gripe is that the combo of Aura and Deathknell wretches is absolutely stupid.
What's your least favorite dungeon? What makes it not an enjoyable experience for you?
I’d say Lost Sanctuary. Galleon’s is second worst, but the cannon minigame is legitimately fun as hell. Lost sanctuary has one gimmick, and that is that the token mobs RUN FROM YOU. That’s it. That’s the one gimmick of the entire dungeon. It’s absolutely awful to play and every room besides the parkour and the boss use this mechanic. Meanwhile, the boss room is just a token collection room in disguise.
What's your opinion on dungeon parties and the big XP gain that comes from them?
It’s fine for now, but it does need to be looked at. in the future the kinds of XP gains per minute you can get from dungeon parties should be limited to actual challenging content designed for a group, like raids or LI (if LI ever got revamped to not rely on its shitty token system).
Alternatively, make all dungeons at least partially scale based on the number of players in them, and I’d imagine dungeon parties would be a lot more interesting.
What could be done to make dungeons feel more replayable and interactive?
1. RANDOMIZED REWARDS. This is the big one. The merchant items are cool and all but once you get them all you’re basically done with the dungeon. They need more dungeon exclusive items to farm that actually have random rolls. Introducing the previous unobtainable gear as dungeon rewards is a good first step.
2. Disable the item rain and make it like the daily rewards system where once you complete a dungeon you can click on a text prompt to get the rewards. That way you can actually clear your inventory and collect your rewards at your own pace, and aren’t as hampered by the gods of RNG, especially in a group. Plus, you wouldn’t lose the token rewards if you have a full inventory when completing the dungeon because that just sucks. The emerald rain can stay because it’s fun and relatively harmless.
3. Dungeon keys should either not be a thing at all or should open the dungeon to everyone on a server for a limited time; EO is probably the biggest offender since it was designed to be done in a group, but it’s already way too hard to organize a large scale raid without having to either buy a dungeon bomb or spend time making sure everyone has a key.
4. Up the XP bonus on EO. It’s one of the few pieces of content in the game that actually scales with a group; it deserves to become a bigger part of the endgame XP loop.
5. Randomized or more mechanic-based encounters would go a long way towards making dungeons more interesting. The best example I can give are Destiny 2’s Dungeons, especially the newest one, Prophecy, which focuses on just one core mechanic (killing things in the light will drop light motes, killing things in the dark will drop dark motes), and then plays around with that mechanic (the shadows move as the rooms flip and change, so you need to keep track of your position at all times). Stuff like @JaydonTheWarrior ‘s suggestion, where Decrepit sewers, for example, could focus on shifting water levels to explore different areas. The biggest issue I can see with this is that it would make dungeon parties a pain, but I feel like the solo or smaller groups would have a much better time.

 

A large part of this can be attributed to the low spawn rates. I attempted a speedrun recently and noticed that I was losing 2-3 minutes of time compared to Ceciliya's WR just on the lack of loot bombs alone. It's especially true in the stage prior to the boss battle, where you sometimes see one mob appear every 10 seconds. Being forced to wait like that is one of the factors that draws out the dungeon time.

I feel that the former option is stupid because it causes problems for players who coincidentally run into each other in a dungeon. They would then either suffer an xp loss solely based on something outside of their control, or they would run away from each other using /hub, which undermines the multiplayer aspect of the game. I kind of agree with the latter.

 

Favorite dungeon: EO, mainly because of the boss, although the atmosphere is well-designed. I also like Ice Barrows' design and rooms, with the exception of the terrible ele def abuse mechanic. Fallen Factory is also quite nice in that it has actually coherent token mechanics.
Least favorite dungeon: Probably Lost Sanc for the super repetitive token rooms, although Decrepit Sewers isn't that far behind. Underworld Crypt suffers from poor execution more than overall badness imo. I also really dislike SST's splitting up of players, especially for the terrible effects it has on new players trying to play with friends.
Dungeon parties: Are a symptom of poor endgame quest xp and grindspot balancing. I find it a little strange that people always seem to want group content, but when dungeon parties come up it's "not like that". Regardless, I definitely think they should stay, even if quests and grindspots were balanced better, because a dungeon is a lot more fun than endless grinding.
Replayability of dungeons: Is honestly not that important imo. The issue is that the progression curve practically necessitates repeated grinding of dungeons.