My Thoughts, Complaints, And Suggestions About Wynncraft Volume 2 (working Title) (salted Replied!)

I originally made a thread awhile ago talking about various aspects of the game that I liked and didn't like since the introduction of Gavel and the 'new' item system. I never finished the thread and let it get locked because I simply had other things to do and a new update was going to come out anyway. Here is a link to my previous thread that I never finished. I'm going to try to re-ignite this topic because I feel like Wynncraft needs feedback more than ever.

Well, I'm going to start now...

I remember back in the good ol' days when I enjoyed Wynncraft the most. Their were less items and simpler builds, a more simplified identification system, guild wars that I enjoyed fighting in, riding players and pets, etc. Wynncraft had its charm back then, but I believe it has lost quite a bit of the charm that it once had. I'm no longer really interested in it too much and I haven't played much lately, which is very disheartening. Please forgive me if I get anything wrong.

*ahem*

The Spell System

Ah, Wynncraft. Oh how I wish the spell system was better. I'm simply sick of the current system.

Alright, every class has four and only four spells. Each spell has 3 grades, with each grade being better than the last, and that's it. Each spell gets stronger once you reach certain levels... and that's it. No room for improvement. No new spells. No new grades. Everything is just boring.

Spell 1
Grade 1: Level 1
Grade 2: Level 16
Grade 3: Level 36

Spell 2
Grade 1: Level 11
Grade 2: Level 26
Grade 3: Level 46

Spell 3
Grade 1: Level 21
Grade 2: Level 36
Grade 3: Level 56

Spell 4
Grade 1: Level 31
Grade 2: Level 46
Grade 3: Level 66

and... that's it. No more growth in the spell system past that point. It's dead Jim. We still have like 39 to get to the current level cap of 105 (excluding 106 as the bonus level). This spell system probably (or, well, did) worked when the level cap was 75, but we are way past that point.
If we absolutely have to keep the current amount of spells and can't learn brand new ones, why not have something like this:

Spell 1
Grade 1: Level 1
Grade 2: Level 16
Grade 3: Level 36
*Grade 4: Level 61
**Grade 5: Level 91

Spell 2
Grade 1: Level 11
Grade 2: Level 26
Grade 3: Level 46
*Grade 4: Level 71
**Grade 5: Level 101

Spell 3
Grade 1: Level 21
Grade 2: Level 36
Grade 3: Level 56
*Grade 4: Level 81
**Grade 5: Level 111 (Unobtainable right now.)

Spell 4
Grade 1: Level 31
Grade 2: Level 46
Grade 3: Level 66
*Grade 4: Level 91
**Grade 5: Level 121 (Unobtainable right now.)

The level difference between Grade 1 spells and Grade 2 spells is 15 levels for every spell. Likewise, the level difference between Grade 2 spells and Grade 3 spells is 20 levels. So using that information, I added Grade 4 spells to this list, with the level difference between Grade 3 and Grade 4 spells being 25 levels. This pattern would repeat as the level cap increases, with Grade 5 spells having a 30 level difference between Grade 4 and Grade 5. I'll leave it up to the staff to determine what the new Grades of spells do.

Speaking of brand new spells, why are we only limited to 4 spells? Why can't we have lots of different spells, each doing their own thing? They don't all have to have a mouse click sequence. Perhaps we can have swappable spells, where we can only have 4 bound at a time. I think I remember NPCs and other things having spells that the player doesn't have access to, even though I recall that many more spells exist... in lore only. What if we can learn different spells, some restricted to some classes, and others could be used by everyone. Perhaps some spells can be useless and just for fun, while others can be useful in certain situations. Why do we not have items or a way to increase our Mana? Couldn't this capacity increase naturally by leveling up? We could have had the "Great Spell Update" or something, but no... individual spells and the spell system have only ever had minor changes, but nothing amazing. A world of possibilities exists! Why not take advantage of it, Wynncraft Devs? I'm sick to death of the current system.

What about Professions? Should they exist only for crafting items? Why not integrate them into other other mechanics, such as the combat and spell system? Endless possibilities.

Alright, what about we talk about items next?

The Item System & RNG

Section 1: Regular (Not Crafted) Items

First of all... THANK YOU FOR MAKING ITEMS WITH SKILL POINT IDs STATIC! THANK YOU CONTENT/ITEM TEAM! :D

Now that that is out of the way... let's talk about items.

Bugs: Items still dropped undyed for whatever reason. Most Set Items, such as the Nether Set and Adventurer Set, are supposed to drop or be identified and dyed with color. Even Salted himself acknowledged this in one of his (now deleted) livestreams and said that it would be fixed in the future, but this still hasn't been fixed. Heads with skins also still break. Why is this still a thing? ugh.

Bugs aside, I kinda miss the whole essentially-one-set-of-armor-ruling-the-meta-thing pre-gavel, but I'm glad that they added more items to the game. What I don't like is the sheer amount of RNG that this game has. I love that Skill Point IDs are now static, but why stop there? Two builds with the same set of items can still be vastly different simply because the negative effects, if any, can be too strong or the positive effects can be too weak. This still leads to items, especially Mythics, to have completely different prices because some NPC said it is after paying them. I'm sick of one item being GODLY and another item of the same name being complete trash that no one wants to buy but is still expensive anyway. It's simply just too ridiculous and completely unhealthy for anyone.

My original suggestion that I posted on the previous thread: "Here is an idea to think about: Item Identifiers or whatever they are called now have a higher chance of giving better IDs depending on the area. Items identified in Ahmsord will be, on average, better than items identified in Ragni/Detlas/etc."

It's alright, I guess... but I prefer my new suggestion.

Here is my new suggestion: Static IDs for... every single ID, not limited to just Skill Point IDs.

*Shock* You're crazy, Thunder! You would be screwing over the economy and everyone! Thousands (erm.. hundreds.. a couple dozen?) of players would hunt you down and kill you IRL for this! All that money buying GODLY IDed items or rerolling would have been wasted! Blah blah blah.

Alright, here me out. Hahaha...

I understand that Wynncraft has to have some RNG, but the amount that it has now is simply ridiculous. There is RNG for actually finding an item, what type it is, what rarity it is, and all of its identifications when identified. It's great that Wynncraft added Loot Quality IDs (finally), but I think that it isn't enough.

So what are the good things about making every ID for an item static?

0.) Hopefully less work for the Item Team in the long run. (and perhaps less complaining about nerfs/rebalances?
1.) Players now would only have to hunt for the items themselves, not the IDs attached to them.
2.) Bad/Meh/Trash IDed items would be equivalent to Good/Godly items. Powders probably wouldn't affect anything much since they are static anyway.
3.) Items that left the Market just because they were rare and frequently desired if they had good IDs but undesired because of bad rolls and/or a high reroll count can make their way back into circulation.
4.) Likewise 'Godly'/Good IDed items can be bought and sold easier because they shouldn't have enormous price tags of stacks of LE anymore since they would be the same as any other item of the same name.
5.) Players no longer have to worry about getting disappointed for getting bad rolls.
6.) This should lead to better player experiences in the long run. This wouldn't be limited to just Mythics. Fabled, Rares, Uniques, Set, etc. items will all be affected as well.

The Cons of doing all of this this? Well...

1.) Players who had 'godly' items before would probably be upset that their items are no longer 'special' or have much value.
2.) It would harder to 'get rich quick' simply by finding a Mythic, or the effect would be considerably diminished.
3.) Due to this change, rich players might be unwilling to part with a lot of their stacks of emeralds.


I can't really see many downsides of doing this, so I look forward to some feedback.

Edit: Salted replied! :D

4) "This is the one I disagree the most with. The loot drop system is carefully made to create a specific experience and randomized IDs are part of that. Here's how it works (on average, it's different for everyone)" - Salted
Read Salted's Post to know more.

I acknowledge that you desire every player's experience to be different, but at what cost? I suppose reducing the ranges of IDs could be a possible alternative, as some IDs on some items could have huge ranges.


Section 2: Crafted Items & Professions

I really loved the idea of Crafted Items and Professions in general, but I feel that the current systems lack enough depth in the design. I would prefer that rolls from ingredients to also be static, like the previous suggestion, but it might be better for them to follow a different approach.

So, what is this different approach? Growth.

This idea is pretty simple and straightforward. As you level up your profession, say Woodworking for example, you would be able to work with the ingredients you found and have a higher and higher chance to get the best out of the ingredients you found. With great experience comes great rewards, as they say. At the max level you probably can get the best IDs guaranteed out of low level ingredients, but probably still struggle with getting perfect crafting rolls with higher level ingredients. It still would require a bit of luck, but it would make the player feel a bit more in control.

With the diverse amount of ingredients that we have, Crafted Items can feel a bit more special as your efforts would actually mean something. Although I can't be bothered to level up my professions simply because the leveling system is really slow right now, especially the Gathering and we've yet to get items with Gathering XP Bonus. Maybe these systems can be expanded upon in other ways as well...

Edit: Another option could be to introduce item leveling, but I'm not sure how that would work.

Guilds

I feel that guilds right now are boring and lifeless. I miss the pre-gavel days... I don't have any good suggestions for these, sadly.

The Marketplace

It's just not good enough, in my opinion. I want to list a whole bunch of things, but I simply don't have the space/slots to do so. Lots of rares and uniques that I've been getting might be useful to another player, but I simply don't have the room to list everything. That alone makes me sad. Ugh. Perhaps we can get a solution for this? Lower level items don't really get much love.

Blacksmiths

Perhaps all the items sold to Blacksmith can make there way back into the Economy somehow? Maybe have a separate thing similar to the Marketplace feature? I don't know. I just know a lot of items that a player might find useful are just... exchanged for a really low amount of emeralds... :( Section is a work in progress?

Have to cut this thread short. Ran out of steam. I would love to hear your thoughts on these. Maybe even discuss your experiences about Wynncraft down below. Maybe I can get some better ideas.

 

I definitely agree that the spell system, and the combat system as a whole, need some reworking, but your exact methods aren't really what I'd prefer. as for the rng with obtaining items, I personally don't really care about how it is right now. the game isn't particularly hard, so you can get by with items with terrible rolls. the ones with good rolls/ones of higher rarity are generally for people who want to build to be as powerful as possible, not necessarily a thing with combat, as with the current hardest challenges you can get by with way below what the average well made build looks like now.

 

Yeah, the spell system can definitely use more work. I just tried to throw in something that would work with the current system if they couldn't do anything new. That's why I suggested they add more spells and whatnot. So I can solo LI, Orange Wybel, all the Corrupted Dungeons, and the new 1.19 content with not really good gear? Hm... I'm planning on doing all that on my Shaman/Skyseer later once I get to the right level... I must be out of the loop on some things.

 

I get you wanna let more people see this, but shouldn't this be in Suggestions?

 

This is more of a discussion than suggestion plus:

More people to see this, and most people on the forums look at the Wynncraft part.

 

I like the RNG aspect of Wynncraft, because it makes it fun and thrilling, such as when you get a really good roll

 

I thought you were about to suggest item leveling right there. (As in crafted items level up with the player.)

 

Question: Are there any plans for a spell system revamp or a change or anything similar because we’ve had this spell system for a long time.

 

The spell system is something that has plagued Wynncraft for some years now is the lack of variety in gameplay styles for classes. As opposed to just adding new grades for current spells I think a major class system overhaul is long overdue. Something that could definitely add to the way of implementing new playstyles in a major way without changing the player expectancy for development is class specializations where as the player levels up their class they will not only unlock new grades for their spells but new categorized sub-classes with a completely unique set of spells. This way the game won't be bloated with new classes to introduce unique ways to play while creating additional playstyles for the player that keep the game interesting for them and gives developers an excuse to not create a plethora of new items and a reason to expect a player to have a unique set of spells per specialization for other in-game content. As OP mentioned in their post the spell grades only go up to a specific level and made sense when the level cap was 75 but that's not the case anymore. So if something like class specializations was added then grades for new spells could scale to the level cap that we have today where instead of unlocking a grade for a spell every 10 levels you'd unlock a grade for a spell every 5 levels across 3 unique specs for 12 unique spells which would be interchangeable for the player incase they'd like to try something else without having to create an entirely new class.

In regards to the item system I agree that item rolls are intensely based on RNG but I do believe that it is a necessary evil in order to keep the variety between items of the same type and having a unique market surrounding it. If anything that should be changed about the current system is that rerolling items should be made to be drastically cheaper so those endgame players don't feel like they need to go out of their way to get another item of the same type or having it cost a fortune to roll the original again. Perhaps a compromise between having items with decent prices for rerolling to 10 or so rolls until the prices start increasing exponentially. Yes, this will most likely decrease the value of all items across the board but it gives players a chance to reroll all the items that would otherwise just ending up being sold to the blacksmith while keeping a stable market surrounding an item. This way endgame players will have the viability to reroll items more often to get decent stats on them instead of just blacksmithing those items and hopes of finding a new item to try rolling again. I personally almost never reroll an item unless it is something exceedingly rare like a mythic that I know could sell for lots of money but if the player was given the option to reroll items at a significantly lower price then it wouldn't be such a turn off for them.

As for guilds, I completely agree that new group oriented content is something that should be considered and I'm positive that it's probably already in the works. The Eldritch Outlook dungeon was definitely a step in the right direction, here's to seeing more stuff like it in the future!

 

Ice Bear absolutely hates finding a great item and realizing it has bad rolls but having having all id rolls be the same would take away a bit. Ice Bear thinks maybe an item optimization method would be good where you have to do this challenge or something to bring your ids closer to the max. Ice Bear says godly rolled items would lose a lot of relevance but it would mean less time spent for optimization. Ice Bear says maybe EO could give a token that could boost the stat of one id closer to the max on an item?

 

No swearing on your christian minecraft server

________________________________

I’m gonna have to disagree with you on the item changes; I think they should focus more on giving items better pathways to obtain them by giving different activities their own loot pool. Make it so Uth shrines, for example, can drop the Uth weapon quintet, or Fallen factory can drop weapons and armor like Brass Brand, Booster Plate, and Steamjet Walkers. But completely removing ID ranges would remove the grind that most RPGs are predicated on.

 

I was kinda thinking about that, but I didn't know how that would work with with armor, accessories, and consumables. Hmm...
I also wanted professions to be better, so.

It's also heart crushing when you get bad rolls and you see someone else have the same item with better rolls. I don't really like to gamble with the current odds. Glad to see that you like it though...

obligatory 'omg salted replied yay!'

Anyway, I'm not saying that players won't have the default spells unlocked. They would still be unlocked and reach higher tiers like normal, but they would have to switch back to their default spells if they need them.

I kinda knew you would disagree with my approach to the Item System. I do understand that it would take some excitement away, but I believe just finding the item generates a positive experience. Steps 0-4 would still exist like you said, but Step 5 will pretty much be gone. Removing the randomness of the rolls might remove the excitement and hype, but I think it would also remove the disappointment that comes from bad rolls somewhat. Items will then only be valued on their supply and demand, not their identifications. Some items such as Mythics (hopefully) shouldn't be listed above 5 stacks anymore since the IDs and number of rerolls essentially makes or breaks their price. (15-30 stacks? really .-.) Some items do have some crazy ID ranges that I don't agree with, some with about 3x more the minimum rolls.

I no longer feel excited when I get anything that isn't legendary rarity or above unless I actually need something from a lower tier. I mainly only get a slight burst of joy when the rolls ago. One of the reasons I don't get excited to much is, or was, the constant item re-balances. I once had a few items with max IDs once, only for them no longer to be max but really close because it was ** not ***. At other times I had alright stats but a rebalance made them worse for some reason. I can't think of any specific examples. Just worried that I spend quite a bit of time and emeralds to get a really good build and then it doesn't end up staying for long because item team thinks it a bit too OP later down the road or something when it's probably fine. I'm sure many others can provide better examples, though. If all the ID rolls were the same, I think the impact of rebalances would be a lot less and equal for everyone, not just ' good rolled items get a bit worse, but bad rolled items probably would get even worse.' or something like that.

That does sound like a good idea. One of the benefits I could think of would be buying unpopular gear that gets sold to the blacksmith or buying back an item sold by accident or something. You do you. Your idea doesn't sound too bad either.

Maybe if it isn't a pain to grind or something. Don't know. Hm.

The grind would still be there somewhat, but it would be a lot less. Don't know of many other Online RPGs that have the same or similar loot system like Wynncraft does. Other ways to obtain items is a welcomed idea in my eyes.

 

I also have empirical evidence that completely removing random rolls in a game based around collecting gear is a bad idea that can kill the playerbase; the destiny franchise tried the exact same thing in year one of destiny 2, and that nearly killed the playerbase within the first three months of the game. It went from roughly 1.6 million players daily to 200,000 daily in three months, and during that time, destiny 2 even got a pretty major new update in the form of a new DLC, that provided roughly as much content as the annual Wynn update. It took them completely revamping the item and armor system and making it all randomized again alongside a gigantic DLC to save the game. And this is a triple A game that can afford making wynn-update sized content drops every three months. It would probably kill wynn for most players if you only needed to obtain every item once, with the exception of maybe mythics, which are already bolstered by their rarity

 

Mythics is a white lie. How can you be excited to find a mythic when some people spend countless hours and weeks and don't have enough luck to find one.

 

Destiny 2 is a complete different genre of game though that has a different loot system. It also had its own share of other problems. I never played the game though, so I can't really comment further. It can't be all pinned on the loot system, can it? Also, crafting unique items is would still be a thing. It shouldn't hurt the player base that much. Hm...

 

It’s actually pretty similar in terms of loot system; both are a mix of world pool and core activities and items from specific activities. The main difference is that destiny was often LESS forgiving in terms of loot quantity than Wynn currently is with something like loot and dungeon running, especially after they tried to course correct their mistakes with loot by trying to reduce the drop rates, with drop chances for certain items, like the EP shotgun, being something like 2% for what was, at the time, the most difficult and longest activity in the game, and with items from raids and raid lairs being locked to one run through per week. Hell, even in Curse of Osiris, widely considered the weakest DLC in terms of loot, and the one with static rolls, it still took something like three or four weeks to obtain every item added in the game.


And crafting is way too mind numbing of a grind to sustain players throughout content droughts, and DEFINITELY can’t make up the main core of a game focused largely around combat and obtaining loot, at least not without some major updates. It’s just too arduous and frankly boring for the vast majority of players, and even some more hardcore ones like me, even if your suggestion was implemented. Hell, even currently Wynn can barely sustain itself between updates; I, and most people, tend to dip out after like two months because we have everything we want.

Honestly, it’d almost be better for your current suggestions to be reversed; make it so crafted items are guaranteed to have static rolls, while keeping the world pool random. That way, if you want guaranteed god rolls, you’re incentivized to play the game more, search for all the different ingredients in various areas, and engage in different professions; the chase would be there and incentivized by the promise of a guaranteed god roll. Given that crafting currently has little incentive, I’m sure it’d help, not to mention it would make consumables much better of a discipline with more consistent consumables

 

Thing is, it's overall wayy better to both be disappointed at times and hyped at others rather than at a medium/low mood all the time. Like salted also said, the suspense is good too and that's a bad thing to get rid of.
I think more of the problem that you only are excited about legendaries is uniques and rares just being too bad to use most of the time. There are plenty that are useful, sure but hardly any at all compared to the whole pool.
Example:
when I get a rare helmet, I'm a lot more excited than a rare bow in the level 96-100 range that is[mind you I throw bows out now cuz useless] because I could get a brainwash (or conrupt/spectrum too), which could be really good but the bow just has nothing for me to be excited about. Pretty much all the endgame rare bows are useless.
So yeah overall I think rares and uniques just need to get better or more, well, UNIQUE ya know? Give them gimmicks or whatever it takes but just make them a LITTLE more relevant. Please.
Obviously don't make them better than higher tier stuff too but there's a good medium.

About the rebalancing however, it helps keep the game alive and makes it so things that were op (see: heavy melee) get balanced and make things that were bad good (see: warchief)

 

> excited for spectrum
> doesn't even mention sizzling shawl

 

The key is to not expect mythics. When you spend time looking specifically for mythics you realize just how much little one in a million chance is, and it would feel like a waste of time. Go start a new class, or explore the world, (or quit wynncraft lol). You don't find the mythic, the mythic finds you.

Alternatively loot run for regular items and sell them on the market or forums. Save up some emeralds until you can buy a cheap mythic, have fun with it, resell it, repeat.