Weekly Community Discussion (27/12/2019) - Shaman Mythics

have fun even getting that dex requirement
it's better to slap Dragon's Eye Bracelet

 

Oh, I didn't even realize that item existed.
Well aside from stacking manacost from spamming 10 aura's in a row. That makes my aura's free! I can even slap that on my fanta build directly as the bracelet is only for getting positive manasteal.

 

If you have 105 Int you already have 1 Mana auras with a good Fantasia.

 

true, but respecing 40 of that intel into something else with dragons bracelet opens up a whole new world of options, you can cap intel out t 65 for capri

 

Exactly my point. You don't even need Dragon's Eye - imo pushing past 1 cost in a single spell without equivalent reduction in a second spell is generally not that useful.

 

You don't need dragon eye, my build works perfectly without dragon eye. but I'm saying that i can sub my manasteal bracelet for a dragon eye, and open up soo many new build possibilities simply at the cost of positive ms.

 

A good Fantasia already has 1 cost aura to start with. If you toss on Dragon's Eye, the only benefit is if you don't have a -34% on 3rd cost or better Fantasia (in which case you'll get 1 cost instead of 2 cost). On a good one, you literally get zero benefit from the spell cost reduction on Dragon's Eye.

 

What are you saying? dragons bracelet lets you neglect your intel, and even if you don't the -spellcost % applies t when manacost ramps up, which can happen quite frequently when you're spamming aura's like a maniac.

 

Your info is outdated - spell cost percent doesn't apply to repeated casts.

There is no neglecting of Int possible - Fantasia guarantees you reach the 94 Int threshold, which means 3 Mana pre-spellcost for Auras. With a good Fantasia, whether you have 3 or 2 pre-percent cost doesn't matter - both will become 1 cost.

 

Good to know that actually. That does ruin dragons bracelet a quite a bit. my fanta is -38% for aura making it 1 mana. Guess i'll stick to positive manasteal for reliable specials.

If you are a bit curious, here's the frankenstein build i slapped together for fanta:
https://wynndata.tk/s/pvh7k1
Bulldozes it's way trough practically anything.

 

Small update for you all! It's Friday, but we're going to keep this one going for another week. Mythic Reliks have some changes that we're going to showcase soon that we'd like the discussion to continue for.

Thanks for the participation thus far, the conversations surrounding the reliks are both intriguing and enlightening. Sit tight! =)

 

Wait a sec I thought courage was just a 150% boost to spell damage% and melee%. Does it actually work with poison?

 

It's a direct multiplier to poison as well. Which is why poison as heavy melee is so interesting, because as you trade raw melee for poison, Courage becomes more competitive with Quake. You can lean heavily into poison heavy melee and run Courage heavy melee. (Chain still sucks sadly)

 

Thank you for making my poison shaman even more OP. I no longer need to care about cursing enemies up close

 

Updated the thread, we have a changelog now!

 

Thank you for max Def on Absolution. The extra mana regen and health is pretty neat too, and a solid damage boost. For those wondering, the base damage is now basically the same as Infused Hive Relik thunder-powdered. Imo at this point Absolution is relatively speaking in a good position.

~4% nerf to Fantasia damage but the mana is more dealable with (pls base -4 though, base -5 feels icky). Although imo the spell costs allowing for 1 mana Auras without any special investment makes it a bit too powerful.

yeet Very Fast Toxo, and req change does make sense considering the power.

Sunstar got +750 dps I guess that's cool.

Hadal +1% base damage but loses the raw spell. Spell costs going down is a nice QoL change since they mostly exist to counter percent cost reductions anyway.

No comment on Aftershock, I haven't done my analysis of melee scaling yet.

 

https://wynndata.tk/s/9ckyjd sunstar
https://wynndata.tk/s/zgyl30 aftershock

I still stand by my opinion of giving aftershock -tier

https://wynndata.tk/s/h8wavc absolution

now it's finally better than the watched. good enough base damage that can substitute no powder slots and can spell spam. nice.

https://wynndata.tk/s/jrvhb0 fantasia

1 mana aura without any rng might be a bit too much. with this mana buff, it's way easier to build around and still have massive damage. with the current rounding mana (1.4 mana round to 1 mana aura idk why) you can get to 1 mana aura even with minimum roll. with the previous mana rounding up I understand this change (which you need 150 int and -35% to get 1 mana aura). I most likely misunderstood the formula and made a mistake so pls link me to a forum page explaining this. other than that fantasia is most likely the best spell relik with this change.

https://wynndata.tk/s/dbvqsz hadal
https://wynndata.tk/s/u3tr09 cryoseism

I don't get this change. the previous hadal doesn't seem too powerful in the spell department (still losing to fantasia). removing spell raw and giving it a negligible base damage buff makes it worse than post buff absolution without powders. this change makes it so that you HAVE TO use a macro to spell spam but with how shaman works this will not go so well since it will cancel the previous aura. unless the changelog doesn't say that it's going to receive a major id that makes aura travels faster, hadal will not have much use except trapping mobs with a small aura. cryoseism might even be better since it cost way less.

https://wynndata.tk/s/jidy9e toxoplasmosis

very lit. easier poison spread. still hate the big af poison range but have to deal with it...

EDIT: updated cryo build cuz it was with powder special
2nd EDIT: was using old hadal, now it's only 10k aura big sad

 

Very true for hadal.

 

Can you tell me your reasoning behind the hadal nerfs? Right now, hadal has two things that set it apart from other mythics: A crippling intelligence requirement, which really limits the possible builds and makes it hard to get both good damage and defenses/health, and +spell cost penalties on shaman's main damage spells. Because of this, you are rewarded with a lot of damage (really a lot).

So it doesn't really make sense to me to reduce the damage by that amount (after the nerfs you will lose around 2k auras in a high damage build, before concentration applies), without giving basically anything back. There just isn't any reason to ever use hadal over fantasia (and as it looks like even cryoseism) if these changes go through. You're left with mediocre damage, a very limited build variety and you still need to pay 3-6 mana (depending on roll) for each aura to deal that mediocre damage, same with uproot.

I do enjoy the +aura changes though, because right now it is almost impossible to get 3 mana auras/uproots (requires a roll of 32% - 30%, so like a 2% chance on an already very roll-dependent mythic), with the new range it will be a bit easier to get a good roll in that. But that probably won't affect most hadals, so the severe cutback of damage is still a very confusing decision.

 

Overall, we thought that the damage output on Hadal was too much.

I personally was able to test hadal, and I was able to kill stages of cybel and other impressive bosses in mere seconds. I found it easy to control bosses as a shaman and avoid taking damage. I only found it unreliable when swapping totems (rare, doesn't take long to kill stuff) / making a fatal mistake, which was not too difficult for me to avoid. Simply due to the speed of the destruction of the bosses, I found hadal *extremely* too overpowering, and we determined a damage nerf was necessary.
I also didn't find it too hard to reach the requirement. The stats on this weapon are truly rewarding (extremely high mana and more damage), allowing players to build up stats in other places.
Picking what other stats to build up is up to the user (not easy to build multiple, a good thing) - providing some build variety as well, while I agree some of the high intelligence items will have to be used commonly.

Also, we find that many people ignore its power with concentration. The downside of +aura cost even helps it here, as the more mana used the higher the damage output. Hadal continues to heighten its damage potential. This is also why we removed raw spell and kept the base damage high - to keep its uncontested synergy with concentration (as well as it being the least impactful ID).