Please Revert This (professions Tools Durability)

on the recent 1.19 changelog, some "quality of life" changes have been added to the game :



- No more refineries! When gathering, left click or right click the resource to select which refined type of resource you want to gather
- Following that, it also means no more weight limit! To replace it, tools now have durability



this might look good on paper, because nice, no more weight and no more refineries means no more going back and fourth to refine your crap every time. right?

well, here's the drawback: durability

durability is already a sensitive thing (ask any hic lol) and adding it to tools is just pointless. let's say that max tools will have 300ish dura. if im not wrong, after 15-25 minutes of gathering you should be running back to repair your tools.

> but wait?? just buy more tools!! problem solvedXD

well no, buying more tools is expensive (literally 1le and a few runs of cib/ff for max ones, and we're legit gonna have a t12, it already exists but has yet to been added so that will probably cost 1.25 and CUG fragments.)


> well. this is saving me time because i dont need to go back and refine stuff then go back to my gathering spot.

actually no, ur going to go back and repair ur tool(s) at pretty much the same time it'd take you to reach your max weight.



there's another problem, which is also related to money, and thats scraps

scraps probably seem cheap on paper, and they kinda are, you can either buy one for only 8-12 emeralds on market or just use the potions-scrapping tactic

it still adds up, and it will keep adding up, and eventually, you've spent so much money on scrap just so you don't have to be lazy and walk to your bank or a refinery. that legit takes 1 or 2 minutes even on the farthest refinery-best spot places

in my eyes refineries and weight are barely even a problem, sure theyre annoying but i definetly dont want to have to spend more money just so i dont need to walk to refine stuff.



pls vote on the poll and express ur opinions. maybe there is actually more good than I think about it.

EDIT:

After tests on hero beta here r results:

t11 tools only have 100 dura and from 1 to 100 durability it takes a total of 18 scraps.

To make matters worse durability effects your tools speed over time (aka ur speed will decay with ur dura)

And, the main source of people's scrap, potions

You can't get scrap from potions anymore either

Oh also did I forget to mention that 2blocks is 1 dura?

EDIT 2:



This is also apparently a thing lol (pic is not mine)

EDIT 3:
Just tested again, I lost 3 dura from 6 swings. Sorry for mistake, its not 1 block = 1 dura. But 2 swings 1 dura is still bad.

Added math and possible solutions. To skip math read TL:DR

I decided to give a hit on the scraps part because the issue people are more concerned about is tools penalties (I definitely agree its the main one) but I want to address how bad the scraps change is, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.

Current scrap prices go for around 10e a scrap. Not so bad at all. With this update, you can't scrap potions anymore - aka scrap will be harder to get. Lets say it increases to 12e / scrap.

From 1 dura to fully repair it costs 18 scraps.
12 * 18 = 218
218 / 64 = 3.406
Only 3.4 EB, not terrible at all right?

It takes around 3 seconds without bombs to mine avo wood with a t11 axe with 100 dura.
At 90 it would takes round 4 seconds, and so on.

Let's do the math:

30 + 40 + 50 + 60 + 70 + 80 + 90 + 100 + 110 + 120 = 650

650 / 60 = 10.8
10.8 * 2 = 21.6 mins
Assuming you're actively gathering it would take you around 20 minutes to go from 100 to 1 dura.

It means it'd cost you 10 EB per hour of gathering. Still not good, but not terrible.

Well, since you can't scrap potions anymore, the scrap supply will be terrible (it's already very terrible lol)

TL: DR

- Can't get scrap from potions anymore
- T11 Tools have 100 Durability
- 2 Swings = 1 Durability
- Using multiple tools decreases your success chances of "refining"
- Gathering Speed decreases with durability (worse durability = slower gathering)
- Main problem with refining is that you have to go back and forth within refineries.
Considering you wouldn't want to wait a good amount of time to gather, you'd want to repair your tools at around 60 or 70 durability.
That means you have to go to a blacksmith after around 5-7 minutes, which is much faster than currently hitting your max weight when having to refine.
In short, it means you're gonna be running to a Blacksmith more than you'd currently be running to a Refinery.
- Supply on scrap will be terrible, even if people will sell huge amounts, it would cost you around 10EB / Hour for actively gathering IF you go repair at 1 dura.

Overall, I really don't see anything good coming out of this update.

I have a suggestion though, to help the current state of profs:

* Changelog says Gathering will give more XP, 50% to 20% at levels. Just change it so from 1 to 130 it would be 20% increase to 50%. As in, in 1.19 at level 1 farming you'd get 20% more XP for harvesting wheat than you'd get in 1.18.
And for mining voidstone you'd get around 45% more than you currently do than in 1.18.

* Add +50 base weight. Very simple.

Note that those are the changes that I think should be added to 1.18 prof system, not 1.19. As in, refining will still exist but tools don't have dura.

I still think Gathering XP and Speed IDs should be added but they could be decreased in stats on all items if they are too strong.



This current 1.19 profession system is definitely not better than weight and refineries. Please reconsider the changes this.

 

Here's my opinion on this:

If durability on T1 tools is at least 300+ and increasing to t12 tools with at least 1000+, and the cost to repair these tools is about the same as current crafted stuff, I would be fine with this change as it is faster than doing refining all together. However, if durability of the tools is the current weight limit of unprocessed materials before the update, then I would vote no. For now, I am nuanced on this.

 

I think this is a good change, because there still needs to be something limiting how much you can gather in a session before needing to leave and store materials. I think it's better this way since there's no refinery chance any more, seems like you'll always get at least a T1 material each time you harvest, and that's much, much better than before.

Scraps won't be an issue for anyone doing gathering anyways, because you can craft items with the materials you get and scrap them at no cost.

This will save a lot of time, as you no longer need to refine anything afterwards or wait at a refinery until everything's finished.

People are always going to hate any changes that are made for a little while but I think in the end this makes things much easier for everyone.

 

Gather -> Craft stuffs -> Scrap stuffs -> Repair -> Repeat



Pouch would make it better for hic... maybe

It could be a problem if durability is too low or smth

 

Ahh forgot about refine chance! If there's no more refine chance, then I'm all in as long as there's the static 89/11/1% chance for T1/T2/T3 materials even with lower durability than what I stated above.

Also shouldn't this thread be in suggestions...?

 

Well, personally I'm not a fan of "forcing" players to interrupt their gathering seasons, because regularly running back to the blacksmith isn't really an interesting mechanic, but on the other hand, gathering as a whole isn't too interesting either, sooo... guess we will have to see how it turns out, if you don't have to repair stuff every 10 minutes or so, i think I won't care that much. At least it is definitely an improvement over the refineries.
Oh, and another benefit might be that owning several copies of the same tool actually makes sense now.

 

I think they should have kept the refineries, it adds "colours" and "variety" to the world.
They should have just double or triple the default weight, and each level gives +2 max weight. Or even remove it entirely.

The gathering grind and going to a refinery is already painful enough, no reason to restrict us with the weights, at least make them less restrictive.

 

Scrap Blocks!

 

after testing on hero beta :

t11 tools only have 100 dura and from 1 to 100 durability it takes a total of 18 scraps..

To make matters worse durability effects your tools speed over time (aka ur speed will decay with ur dura)


You also can't get scrap from potions anymore


EDIT: Also forgot to say that 1 block is 1 dura lol

 

I am surprised no one has looked at the fact why they removed the weight system and replaced it with this, so I will do that now.
The whole weight system was a terrible idea from the start, it's fundamentally flawed: The developers and admins wanted players to only do a few professions and buy the other ingredients, materials, etc. from the market and other methods.
So let's start of by saying a player wants to reach mining level 100 in their playtime in wynncraft.
So said person starts mining and mining, ignoring the other professions for now because they seem like a waste of time for said person.
Until that person reaches a certain level, the material weight gets so extreme players are simply forced to level up their other professions.
If you want to reach level 100 gathering in 1.18 wynncraft, I highly suggest from experience to atleast get level 70-75 on all other professions unless you want to run back to the bank literally every minute.

So now you end up with a player that likely has level 70+ in every gathering profession.
Now this already breaks the original vision of the devs, but it only gets worse.
Now what do you think is likely to happen with a player that already has a massive amount of levels in every gathering type out there?
They either sell the materials they already have,
OR just say "fuck it" and level everything, which at this point is much more likely to happen because they already have materials for every crafting type out there.
Ofcourse this is all a bit exaggerated, but from what I've seen so far as one of the highest leveled gatherers out there and with my experience with game design, I can definitely say without a doubt the whole weight system only encourages players to level up literally every profession out there.

I often see players suggest that the max carry weight should be increased or that leveling up professions should give more than +1 carry weight.
While this does indeed reduce the issues of the whole weight system, it definitely won't solve the fundamental problems with this whole system.
The whole point of the weight system is to prevent players from gathering until their entire inventory is packed with unrefined materials (or now in 1.19 with refined materials), while this decision in itself is arguably questionable, I can definitely see and agree on why the developers added something to prevent this.

Another large issue with increasing the weight system (especially the "leveling up should give more than +1 carry weight each time"), is that it's extremely hard to balance.
As an example, players at one point would be able to carry a decent/balanced amount of resources at once (according to the devs), but if they decide to level up other gathering professions, this can/will off throw said entire balance.

The benefit of this whole new "tools have durability" system is that it's stable, and definitely much easier to balance by the devs, and again, doesn't force/massively encourage you to level up all professions at once.

To wrap up this whole post, I definitely must say that (judging from the post snapdoomy made earlier) the durability amount on tools is too low, the repair costs are too high, and the fact that tools lose effectiveness now when their durability decreases is a terrible idea, but I won't go into detail with this one.
But after all this is still just a Beta, things can definitely still change and I really hope they do.
Despite this all this system is much better, even though it's currently overly expensive etc.
(Though I definitely hope they added something to prevent players from just bringing 10 tools with them because that would definitely ruin a large part of the whole system, but I guess we will see about that in the future.)

 

Thanks I changed my vote

 

I've heard it's 2 blocks = 1 dura. But either way, that's extremely low.

 

You said that the CT wanted us to only work on one or two professions, and I feel that a perk system for professions would help also solve what the CT is going for, implemented with tools with durability.

For example, a system where there is a tree of perks, where its deigned so its better to pick a certain selection of perks, compared to a jack of all trades. There could be faster gathering time, or maybe a higher chance to get higher ids on a thing, just pitching ideas. Basically, a perk system where you get a lot of benefit from picking perks for a few professions compared to picking perks for all.

 

Holy shit is that ever a good breakdown of the problem with gathering.

I wanted to see what the HB was like before I made any comments on the new system, but I did vote for the new system because I think it's a fundamentally better idea.

It's more important to have a few deep and important systems in a game which have a bunch of different uses, rather than a bunch of shallow systems with only one use, which is one of my few complaints with the Economy Update. It never really made sense to have a carry weight, and the fact that scrap was only ever used for crafted item repair is a little silly. The fact that this update is forgoing the weight system and the refining system in favor of developing the repair system is a great improvement, and should encourage people to take a more balanced approach to gathering and crafting, which is great.

To be honest, I don't have a huge problem with a high repair cost, but based on feedback from the beta I can say with some certainty that it's probably a little too high, but that isn't my major concern. The fact that tool effectiveness decreases over time is really dumb. If they really a drop in efficiency, it should be after the tool breaks. It would be really cool if tools could work at half or a quarter efficiency once broken, but when they have even a single durability left they should be as good as new, or else gathering is just going to get even more grindy than it was before.

As a solution to the multiple tools, While I have no problem with it (encourages people to do dungeons which are the best part of Wynn, check out my suggestion here), but a good solution would to only allow one of each type of tool in the players inventory at any given time.

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If the CT's only wanted players to work on one or two things at once, I don't think they did a good job. On my mage I'm at about level 40 on everything and the progression feels really balanced. You get the right amount of resources from leveling each gathering up by 10 to level up all 8 professions, so I really hope they don't break the nice balance that they have now.

 

Another thing lol:


(Pic isnt mine)

 

From what I've heard, the new system sounds absolute garbage and NEEDS changing - Levelling gathering and crafting professions was already a slow, boring and unrewarding process, but now it seems to actually be worse somehow. I didn't mind having to run back and forth because of the weight of items and maybe an identification could have made this easier still (Max Weight +x). Seems like an easy solve and whoever made these changes really dropped the ball on this one. Real shame to hear about this.

 

Only 100 dura?! Half the time will be spent simply repairing tools and accounting for the lost of efficiency as the dura decreases! This is worse than keeping refineries in terms of both xp purposes and gathering purposes even despite instant gathering and higher xp yields per node!

Also what kinda tool breaks after 100 dura?! Use it for 10 minutes without speed and it breaks?! Also forget to mention that it costs 1LE for a T11 tool and I should at least expect great value from it, i.e. 1000 dura.

Also rip prof grinding parties @GlassJarss

 

this is like using a water filter to remove the germs from dirty sea water and then throwing the filtered water back into a stinky swamp

But for real, I think this can work - just buff the durability to like 400-1000 durability.

 

I totally agree, with 100 durability, each player will have a maximum of 10 minutes to gather resources before their gathering item breaks. On top of this, gathering resources lowers the durability too AND the tool becomes less efficient the closer it comes to breaking. That last one is the stupidest addition to the game and I really despise it.
The durability needs a drastic increase (Maybe each tier has a related durability? e.g. Tier 1 = 100 durability, Tier 2 = 200 etc.) AND they need to remove the dumbass function where they become less effective - it adds nothing to the game and only serves to annoy people.

 

Wtf guys. How do you mess up something so simple

Give tools a high durability, let people carry spare tools, bump up xp gain

It's not hard, but nooooo, you can never let resource gathering be fun can you

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but seriously? Why are you making gathering so difficult and boring?