Weekly Community Discussion (27/09/2019) - Master Hive Items

https://wynndata.tk/s/0log4j
this is quite close to being not enough sp
especially when you use cata
judas isn't high req enough

 

I mostly agree with what Druser said, I like how they're a bit more stuck to their own archetype yet they got a some mana buffs plus some more extra benefits. Hephs Sabs (hey, that rhymes!) still seems underpowered, but I don't think it could get better than this without changing it up a lot. Similarly, Obsidian-Framed Helmet looks quite underpowered as well (-2 attack speed +100o melee damage is usually not worth it outside of Rainmaker).

Oh, and the custom item for Chaos-Woven Greaves is missing its elemental defenses even if they don't matter

 

tfw fucked up on the very first 1 (heh)
fixed

 

Throw on Breakdown or Sizzling Shawl* or Whitecap Crown (or whatever other damage replacement helmet you want), keep Medeis, and use Intensity.

*-hpr won't be too impactful since you're probably using Atlas anyway

 

too bad I guess... divzer already give enough ms that new anima's mana is redundant

 

in my mind: okay MAYBE they won’t cuck my stinger build with the master hive rework

item team: renders my build unusable by roughly 50 skillpoints

the past 4 months are the reasons why i don’t allow people to help me on group projects

 

Here is a Quick Summarized View of the Stats of each item.

Spoiler: Boreal-Patterened Crown

Health: 3000
Ele Def: 150
Ele Def: 10%
Ele Dam: 25%

Spell: 250
Spell: 20%
ManaR: 1

Spoiler: Obsidian-Framed Helmet

Health: 5400
Ele Def: 225
Ele Def: 20%
Ele Dam: 15%

Melee: 1000
LifeS: 250
AttackS: -2

Spoiler: Twilight-Gilded Cloak

Health: 3000
Ele Def: 175
Ele Def: 10%
Ele Dam: 25%

WalkS: 15%
Melee: 10%
AttackS: 1

Spoiler: Anima-Infused Cuirass

Health: 3800
Ele Def: 200
Ele Def: 20%
Ele Dam: 15%

Regen: 40%
ManaS: 3
ManaR: 3

Spoiler: Elysium-Engraved Aegis

Health: 4200
Ele Def: 200
Ele Def: 20%
Ele Dam: 15%

Melee: 325
Melee: 30%
WalkS: 25%

Spoiler: Chaos-Woven Greaves

Health: 4200
Ele Def: 100
Ele Def: 5%
Ele Dam: 30%

Melee: 30%
Spell: 30%
Poison: 2250

Spoiler: Abyss-Infused Leggings

Health: 3400
Ele Def: 175
Ele Def: 15%
Ele Dam: 20%

Spell: 275
LifeS: 225
ManaS: 4

Spoiler: Eden-Blessed Guards

Health: 4600
Ele Def: 300
Ele Def: 30%
Ele Dam: 5%

Regen: 250
Regen: 50%
ManaR: 3

Spoiler: Hephaestus-Forged Sabatons

Health: 5400
Ele Def: 250
Ele Def: 25%
Ele Dam: 10%

LifeS: 250
WalkS: 20%
ManaS: 4

Spoiler: Gaea-Hewn Boots

Health: 5000
Ele Def: 225
Ele Def: 25%
Ele Dam: 10%

Regen: 250
Spell: 20%
ManaR: 3

 

Currently the only hive item I disagree with is Gaea-Hewn Boots.
None of it's unique ID's I would associate with strength, I would recommend:
Melee: ~250
Spell: ~250
Regen: 250
The raw buffs is to keep it different from Chaos-Woven Greaves.

 

The combo of Gaea isn't a particularly offensive one, though. That's why only 1/3 of its specific IDs are damage related. Earth, when used with water in any scenario, tends to be spell and regeneration oriented, hence the current stats.

 

that obsidian framed helmet is just a very broken taurus....

 

I don't understand why everyone is saying 1k raw melee is broken. In the absolute optimal scenario (Archer, Super Slow weapon, Quake), 1k raw melee corresponds to an effective dps boost of 1.23k. Compare this to Shawl of Gaea's 371 raw melee, which gives effective 1.6k dps boost on Super Fast, and actually still gives 1.26k on Very Fast.

TL;DR 1000 raw melee on Super Slow = 285 raw melee on Super Fast, if you're maxing out dmg by going for Quake.

 

obsidian framed helmet is OP because rainmaker exist.
1k raw melee in superfast=4.3k dps boost
https://wynndata.tk/s/b78e0i

 

Would you seriously consider using a melee archer build at 13k dps? Is that enough to make fast melee archer, possibly the second-most maligned playstyle, viable? (anyway, Rainmaker can already reach very close to 14k without Obsidian-Framed Helmet)

Regardless, that's a reason to change Rainmaker, not a reason to hinder the entirety of the slow melee playstyle.

 

i only said it was broken because it was similar to a taurus without the - 27 tiers of attackspeed

 

https://wynndata.tk/s/wmv1sz
here’s uh a melee focused hybrid Divzer XD
...
Ele defs don’t matter
https://wynndata.tk/s/8x2uwr

 

By focusing on the actual overall impact, you've basically missed the mark. It's the same reason you shouldn't buff 1 or 2 warrior spears to make spell warrior "viable" but should instead change how the spells actually work to make far more spell spears viable.

By the point you make Obsidian-Framed Helmet's raw melee significant enough for Heavy Melee to use it well, Rainmaker will be by far the strongest Quick Melee bow option, dominating the few competitors it currently has in that domain, even though it won't be actually overpowered in the context of the entire game.

This might not necessarily be a problem depending on your perspective; however, it would cause problems later if archer *quick* melee is buffed.

Also it would mean only using Rainmaker in one way because of how domineering said style would be.

Well, it's actually an easy fix - Rainmaker +tier -> 15 base tier, then have Obsidian be -16 tier, which means player pick between Taurus and Obsidian-Framed Helmet. Then you can actually buff Obsidian's raw melee to reasonable levels for Heavy Melee.

For those of you who don't get why I'd keep the design centered on raw melee instead of % melee, it's for the following reasons:
- % Melee directly favors weapons with higher base dps. In the context of Heavy Melee, this means weapons that are Super Slow by default since you'll have Super Slow attack speed regardless. This means that Slow/Very Slow weapons are heavily disadvantaged by % melee.
- Additionally, as noted by Druser, raw melee (raw damage in general, really) is necessary to help mediate differences in class base damage.

 

If you're considering using it in Rainmaker, okay. If you're considering using it for the raw melee and countering the -2 tier, it wasn't broken it revamp - usable in a few niche situations (I think I used it twice for fast melee, out of ~300 builds I made in revamp), but not overpowering.

 

I'm not sure how this situation is comparable, with regard to slow melee. I'd argue that there should be several armor options with 1k+ raw melee and -tiers.

(let's assume Rainmaker also gets balanced to work with these)

 

Oh, sorry for my lack of clarity.

Yes, I agree. Heavy melee is very much an item thing rather than a mechanic thing.

I was referring to Rainmaker and archer melee.

On an unrelated note, it'd be nice if Momentum was Pure Earth instead of Earth-Air (or Pure Thunder if you want to relegate EFA Heavy Melee to using something like Dia Fiber Brace) to open up its accessibility to items like Obsidian-Framed Helmet. Would also be nice if Earth Breaker actually devoted to Heavy Melee.

 

Yeah, iirc revamp Momentum was Dex req only. Earth Breaker pointed to heavy melee sounds like a really cool idea, especially with the ls penalty.