Info The Elemental Revamp: Part 1 - Endgame Overhaul - Updated Changelog Beta 1.1.1

R.I.P Vaward...

 

anima changed to conflict with M E D E I S

look at uniques

and also fire/earth/tier stack/a lot of things tbh

 

i have a questions

it's have any boots to replace this mythic boots?

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all my builds are broken
i don't know how many emeralds need to rebuild my build.

 

A very well-worded and objective response, that explained and assured my concern and not simply telling me to be less concerned and to hold my breath awhile. Thank's Major, I feel less mixed on this now.

 

Oh hey @by2011
Nice seeing you here

Anyway seeing the changelog brought me from against the update to neutral, so gj

But also the statement about "locking into a specific combo or two" kinda kills the whole purpose of this update doesn't it?

 

this gives me a nice excuse to quit at least

also did no one consider while making this garbage how badly it'd fuck up the already awful economy? literally this is going to easily destroy it the second it drops and likely will start to do so out of fear for it for months in advance

lastly, the point of making builds is to make something cool and unique for yourself typically, yes we had meta builds before obviously but now you're literally being forced to make choices if you want to use certain items.

why is this archetype thing good for creativity

it's literally built to limit creativity

this is dumb in more ways that i can explain and other people clearly can tell, isn't it odd that the only people actually happy about it are those who worked on it? maybe it's because they just don't want to see their work go to waste despite it being bad for the game overall

wow that sounds familiar huh

 

I've been told that we buy items and have to accept the risk of them being changed.
I'm also told that this for some reason helps "countless issues" in the current system and prevents a "meta"

just an inb4 someone answers ._.

 

Good response dude

 

I assume this is similar to when we get xp to be at the top of the leaderboards we accept the risk. At least that is what I was told.

 

I hate how anima got changed to chestplate
now there's no good fire/water/thunder helmets and medeis got rendered useless

also I love how no one see that stratiformis got shafted
12k bombs 8/4 mr 10k hp and it's already killed by not having enough sp

hey look now spring isn't sprong
13k bombs 12k hp 10/4 mr is more than possible
Spring has been overbuffed by quite a bit

 

personally speaking, strati is the one item in the entire game that needed a nerf, it was way too good

 

1. Master hive armor is broken
hive armor is now turned into main part, not support.
the hive armor requires a high sp and has -15 other sp.
it's mean to use a hive armor, you must force the archetype. -> rainbow archetype can't use hive armor.

2. Mana regen is still possessed of intelligence.
i can hardly find mana regen to be used in other types than water - only used one build https://wynndata.tk/s/dvnb7h
pure spell builds still require intelligence, and mana regen nerf has made it even harder.

3. High sp requirement
nearly every armor requires a high dual sp.
it's make frame on build. can't make my own type.

4. Rarity

i can't understand this part.
rare is better then unique, legendary is better then rare. this is the role of rarity. but this item patch make no rarity in all items.
these option only make the build more difficult. the distinction between rarity needs to be made even clearer.


+edit

5. Melee is still bad
the weakness of melee is that you can not reach the enemy.
mana steel and life steel can only be used when they are close to the enemy, and until then they are useless.
the most important thing for melee is the walk speed and the defense that can get close to the enemy.
but such items are very few.

 

i really wish the patch notes were published on april 1st, it would be less depressing

 

Let me open up your eyes to the amazingness of Clock Boots (the other builders aren't a fan but I can promise they'r actually good for fire tierstack).
Inferno: https://wynndata.tk/s/sph3xt , or the probably better build of https://wynndata.tk/s/p47f3h (change dupliblaze to back-up plan if ele defenses/skill points aren't working out)
Flameshot Hilt: https://wynndata.tk/s/lwvgi6 sorry man but flameshot is kinda cancelled now, however i have other things to share with assassin melee fire which is
Pyroclast: https://wynndata.tk/s/q1yp3u (thunder defense is real bad, but with some time i'm sure someone will call me stupid for doing this and show an actual good one)
(bygones sucks btw pls buff)
[edit: used non-beta flameshot hilt please don't bully me https://wynndata.tk/s/esdouv]

 

spring build
https://wynndata.tk/s/4miv78
so broken
might want to revise how hard you are buffing spring

 

Right. Hot take: I'm not a fan. A couple of specific things off the bat:
-A lot of glassy items are still in a bad spot. Dune storm, specifically, might honestly be in an even worse spot now since its agility got traded for -fire defense and also some normal defense. Lekctrick whateveryoucallit is also getting a bat to the knees, trading much of its offensive presence and fire defense for... some melee damage?
-RIP to the lethe. first off, the nerf to it, but second off, its being renamed which honestly doesn't matter too much in the long run but it did hold a somewhat special place in my heart.
-Nona and Dondasch have like no synergy. at all. It'd be a lot cooler if, say, Nona gave much better stats at the cost of 1 attack speed so Dondasch could form a patch for it. It'd fit the theme of the boss altar a lot better, and would be a pretty cool all around synergy. As is, the attack speed bonus is largely pointless on these.
-EWA in general seems counterintuitive; most of its power relies on mana steal and fast attack speeds, but those in conjunction...
-We seem to be backtracking on mana regen being more widely available; Ivory and Unravel specifically come to mind. Yes, I know They're getting mana steal, but so is basically everything else, which doesn't fix the problem with mana steal being inconsistent and also is probably going to force people back into water builds again.
-Brainwash. Just... why?
-Rewind is being hit hard, and is again falling into the "lets make mana regen water exclusive" category
-Capricorn is being hit hard, and can't really fit into any tri-elemental builds now
-What's the point of changing requiem so much? Why not just make that into a new item?
-For that matter, why not make the revamped brainwash a new item? Or the lethe?
-The tri-element stuff seems really poorly executed and shoehorned in
-Why is I feel like Aries is trying to fill a EWA role despite the fact that it more closely tracking with EFA, and Pride of the Aerie is doing the opposite. Which begs the question, why? Aries is about the dwarves. From molten heights. who rode rams into battle. sounds like a EFA type item, right? PotA, on the other hand, while not having lore by itself, does seem to have connections to the Avos, who use nature magic, and spirits and stuff. Why do these items not make sense? This also applies to Nona and Dondasch. Hell, from the fact that the boss also drops Eidolon, a literal ghost spirit of possession, you can surmise they've been pulling off some shady dark magic shit. why are their items attack speed focused instead of abyss focused, like the EWA group, which already lacks a chestplate and a dagger?


Overall, even beyond these smaller issues, there are three main problems with this overall. First off, a lot of the changes don't make sense. Like, with Nona and Dondasch both on, you get +2 tier attack speed. Wonderful. Why do you need it? Nona is already super fast, and of all of the earth-air attunements focus on either adding more attack speed anyways, or using mana steal, which is already inconsistent without the added attack speed. And since both items kill fire usability, you can't really run a valiance build with them. Or Aries and Pride of the Aerie, seeming to fill each others roles. Not to mention the lore oddities, like Tera giving air damage despite the boss it drops from being in the middle of a lava field underground. So many items were fine or just needed minor tweaking, and many, many of the element comboes just lack weapons or armor to build them with, such as void and chaos. Why revamp so many items instead of adding them into the loot pool for, say, dungeons? or from killing specific mobs, like ingredients? or as special drops from LI? It'd give us ways to chase this gear without diluting the general loot pool, and give us something to do in between content drops. Or hell, why not delay this update until the rest of the content team can make enough actual endgame content to justify such a large scale revamp?

Second off, mana regen. mana regen is just getting shit on with things like Unravel, Ivory, Brainwash, ETC losing it for the more mercurial mana steal. Which, again, why? It's not going to fix the issues with mana steal, and all it seems to do is shift the meta into water even more than it already is. In fact, by the end of this I'm betting that TWA will just become the meta anyways, since its the only real category that gets consistent mana regen, damage, and walk speed as a bonus.

Third, and most importantly, nothing about this makes the game more fun or rewarding. in fact, most of it makes it less fun to experiment. the new Hive Armor? Guaranteed to overshadow everything else for that element and slot, and the hive accessories. The shift to mana steal for everything but water? Definitely going to make pretty much every build either water based, or tier stacking. The large blanket 'changes' that are definitely nerfs? again, going to shift everything to water, especially with the nerfs to mana steal and regen on everything, which doesn't solve the core issue of intelligence being too powerful or mana regen being too slow, or melee builds being just unfun to play with. The glassy items get pretty much nothing to make them worth their weight in attack power, the tanky items still lack the elemental defense to tank, so everyone will, once again, gravitate to the mixed items. At the end of the day, people are going to gravitate to the best and most fun 12 items for the archetype, and then the best archetype, and we'll be back to square one, only everything feels weaker and we're just stuck whaling on mobs for 30 minutes instead of 20. It's like watching the Division 2 or Destiny 2 all over again; both games tried to prioritize balance over fun, and both got hit hard because of it, only Destiny 2 recovered by reversing course and making things powerful and unique and fun to blow shit up with, and the Division 2 is trying to do the same, while we're just stubbornly refusing to. Instead of celebrating weird gimmickiness with cool new IDs or awesome new perks and abilities to complement the revamp of the whole item system, you're just trying to force every item into a square hole. Look, I was an ardent supporter of the item team for the longest time. I've even defended the item team before on similar matters. But if this is all you've got, its going to be difficult to find a reason to get on again.

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That's not even mentioning the fact that these constant item changes really screw over people like me who can't afford or don't have time to constantly buy and sell entire new builds.

 

https://wynndata.tk/s/hntsme
OH FUCK
ABORT SPRING BUFF
DAMAGE RIVALING DIVZER

 

We did actually point out that changes like Fatal, Nirvana, Warchief, Galleon, crabs, parts of Morph set, and other generally more expensive items like Memento would change quite a lot to a lot. None of us really know market prices that well, but we tried. Some of them ended up getting tweaked, some didn't. I'm personally still hoping the mythic boots will get a change to make them all more even, seeing as some (Galleon) are better than others (crabs).

The archetype thing is.. strange. Yes, it limits creativity, seeing as it's sometimes really easy to just use the Hive armor and slap some gear on it that works and get a decent build, but different playstyles/different weapons can change that build up a ton. Quad-element is certainly possible with smart use of uniques, and I do hope you don't think rainbow counts as being creative. I'm kind of confused at your 'you're literally being forced to make choices if you want to use certain items' argument, because that's just how class building's supposed to be?

The archetype system was built to make class building easy for new players and challenging and rewarding for people who are good at class building. I think it's turned out to be that way.. more or less? Still too early in to give a full opinion on that, I'm afraid.

ALSO we didn't get full control over items or anything, we were more damage control and test group if anything. My first reaction when I saw the changes (1.0.0) was "I gotta play archer while I still can", but I've warmed up to it a bit and I'm currently at a mostly neutral stance, with a few really fun things (water/earth buffs all-round) and a few less fun things (mana regen being hard to get outside of WFA and EWF, int being even more important than ever and TFA as a whole). Mind you, the update is far from ready for release, the Item Team wants feedback from everyone now (not just a few funny class builders), so please do give feedback on items, archetypes and the like.

 

@SilverMirror can you please explain to me some Things:

Spoiler: Suppression

Suppression will be the most useless item ingame because theres this item

I grinded many Hours to get 2 Godly Suppression and now they are just worse than a lvl 8 ring (higher Level , -hp, -Mana Steal, - Life Steal)

Suppression was so interesting to be because it stood out from the other rings because it was the ONLY 3/4 Mana Regen ring in the game. I think if you would add back 2/4 MR to it it will be fine again because ist unique and has potential in future builds. If Suppression stays like this you can also just delete it completely.

Spoiler: Aqua

Also i dont get this Change:
Also like with Suppression the Aqua was unique and something Special being the only chestplate with 7/4 possible Mana Regen (it's at least still the best MR chestplate ingame). Now it gets nerfed Damage and mana wise so there are now WAY better chestplates than Aqua (there were a ton before but now like every chestplate is better)
having 2 less mana and having like 3 times more Damage because you dont have -spell% and -melee%
also this:
having 500 more hp and not a 110 Intel req this chestplate will replace Aqua for me (Still having 3/4 mana regen and having a lot of buffs)

Spoiler: Crafted items

also crafting is gonna get so much more powerful than it is already is. with items like this and this People will delete their nerfed Aqua and just craft themselves one for their weapon and entire armour…
Also i dont get why Mythics got a nerf (especially Spring) because you could already craft yourself a better spring that has same mana regen and a ton more Damage (and a less Intel req...) also why is there now -hpr???

There are so many items that got killed in this "beta patch" (f) like blue mask, Aqua, Suppression, Spring etc. but i want to Point out some Things that i think you've done very well:

Spoiler: Uniques

The Uniques: I think you rebalanced the uniques very well and now most of them can be used in actual builds :) good Job

Spoiler: Boreal

Boreal: when i wirst saw that Boreal got a Defense req. i thought it was RIP but after thinking About it it isnt so bad.
Although i think they Need a Health buff i love this item already! I have in my entire time playing wynn just played archer (*suprised Pikachu face*) and i played only with the Elements air, thunder and water. so if you add fire to it i can finally use These boots with my Strati :D (Maybe someday i will use a firebow like ignis to test fire element)

I just want to thank the Wynncraft Team for bringing out new stuff once in a while :). I'm also kinda confused because i thought there will be new mythics coming out. But i guess they dont want to be shared yet.

Thanks for reading this :>

 

not sure if you mean in price here considering that's the part of my post you're addressing here but if so then they're going to be worth quite the opposite of a lot
also warning us that "hey your items that you spent a hell of a lot of time and money to get really good versions of are gonna be worth like a lot less" does not remedy the fact that they're gonna be worth a lot less

My question is more, why did we need an archetype system? Look at it this way, previously you could slap most any armor pieces together and they'd at least yknow, half function, which is what most newer players going for their first lv100 did. Now you literally can't do that because with a ton of items if you don't fit the rest of their build to an archetype you flat out can't use the item because of the absurd sp requirements. On top of that the archetype system is also horribly fleshed out currently: it hasn't been explained how players will even realize it exists once it's live if they don't check the patch notes, or where those fancy names that were given to each come into play. If you're gonna implement a system (especially one as controversial as this), at least show us the full picture.
Next, quad element is possible yeah but it sure as hell isn't viable compared to a good tri element (wOOOOOO ARCHETYPES YEEHAW) build or a full rainbow build because it just sits in the middle wondering where it should be. And no, rainbow builds aren't creative, however the item team seemingly catered a ton of previously rather universal items (hello vaward) to rainbow items so that now rainbow is once again extremely meta viable and works probably just as well as an archetype.

yes we loved it last time rainbowslap was popular

As for the last part, is buildmaking not supposed to be a creative process? Of course you shouldn't be able to slap like literally anything together to make a build (wait a minute, yes you can, that's just how the crafted item system works, yay for dozens of hours of grinding required to be creative), but at least before if you tried something a little weird it could just end up being pretty meh compared to some of the meta build types. Now, again, you literally can't because of the gigantic sp requirements.

And yes, I know uniques are supposed to counter that so you don't make all legendary builds like you do currently. Awesome, fuck over the market harder so that legendaries are worth far less and uniques are now the core items that get a huge price buff.

Yes it's far too early to tell because again we know literally nothing about how this is gonna be explained in game. If items literally say what archetype they belong to sure it'll be great for new players, yet also that takes a ton of the creative discovery out of it. If it's just explained to you, "hey this is the volcanic archetype remember these 3 elements and look for them on items to match together", I can't say I expect new players to care to memorize all of that. Not by a long shot.

Finally, look at it this way. Newer players, and most people and general, see higher rarities and think "wow that must be better than this lower rarity item" because this is the case in like basically every game (only exception that comes to mind is like Path of Exile with unique items I guess). What the team is trying to do is discourage that and encourage more uniques to be used instead. Players will not get this unless y'all are also working with the GMs to make quests to explain ALL of this in detail.

Remember how many people left once elements were released alongside a new province, rework of powders, rework of relics, addition of a ton of ids, and a rework of the core item system as a whole?

The team is literally trying to do this again, except Wynn's playerbase I'd say is far more fragile now than it was back then, considering how many more people are openly opposed to this and so many other parts of the game in comparison to pre-Gavel.

Don't do this, it's too much and it's not healthy for the game at all, you're gonna achieve the exact opposite of your goal here.

but what do I know, I'm just a casual player not part of the CT and therefore my opinion is inferior

haha level 101 extra xp removal debate references