Assassin/Ninja Cata Build

nirvana takes 5.37 seconds and cataclysm takes 5.12 seconds to charge for powder specials with constant, perfectly executed, melee (less room for error with nirvana, but they're essentially the same)

yeah, i can agree that killstreak and concentration are sort of playstyle based (i like concentration because it's more consistent personally)

94int + 4/4 mr is the issue here. that's enough for (in your pattern)
spin multi vanish (run away and wait)
spin smoke vanish (run away and wait)

whereas with nirvana you can do something like
spin spin smoke spin spin multi (vanish if 11/4 + 129 int or 10/4 + 147 int), vanish not even necessary because stunlock

basically, incorporate 3eye somehow (https://wynndata.tk/s/Zuwoz7 nerfs are accounted for, too lazy to actually try rn ;-;)

 

In average what's the average spin attk in nirvana build?

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And plus what's the mechanism of charging special ability, Am I getting it wrong by thinking it's charged per melee hit?

 

nirvana is like 9k in a relatively tanky build

with powder specials, the way it's charged is basically like
super slow: charges 1/3 a hit
super fast: charges 1/22 a hit

 

Ok then i have gotten it wrong .

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How many hits can it survive tho?

 

https://wynndata.tk/s/8pdB1e

 

I get what you mean that my build is bad enough to be inferior than Nirvana build.
I might have gotten out of the point but Nirvana could be a better weapon than Cata. It can have better dps or overall it's just good. But it's just the weapon that matters not the build. I mean, you can not just compare nirvana build and cata build saying which one is better.

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Ps. It's not becoz I could not prove to you that cata build is better :P (or maybe)

 

The average spin attack on a Nirvana with good mana regen is 9k and with good defences and Defence SP. With concentration it easily hits upto 12-13k spins within the 3-4th spin which is quit easy and it has higher average DPS due to having 110 intel to use it on the first chance, and with great Intelligence SP and so you usually end up with 2 mana spells and that gives a fuck ton higher DPS.

I can survive around 3 hits by Cybel with my bad Nirvana build, most usually survive around 4 but it never gets to the point that Cybel is able to cast a single spell, it usually is dead long before that due to 9k spins and high mana regen(14/4) and it's usually very easy with my build. You wont stand one chance against Doctor Legendary Form 1 because it's a pain in the ass because all he does is spam flamethrower, and you'll die repeatedly, since it's hard to do on any build, but on a 8k HP build and negative defences? It's jsut not gonna survive 1 hit

Nirvana is a better build than Cataclysm but that's not the point. The point is that with Cataclysm you need to focus on the defences since the damage is so great you don't need to buff it. Due to the fact that you have around 8k hp and that's with a -3500 cata which is rare by itself, you need to focus on the health, get it to 15k since yours has -5220, and that's all the advice I can offer. I suggest using High SP items and focusing on either defence or agility and intelligence. You'll need SP items to make it work, but it shouldn't be too hard, I'll try making a build for you.

 

Ik exactly how easy or hard it is to dodge a spell with assassin. I have used multiple different builds for assassin before I deleted both of them, and each time the problem that remained for all of them I tried was mobility without vanish. Since this build lacks mana regen, it can not spam vanish effectively away from tight situations. This comment is a failed attempt to try and knock my credibility to the ground and try to dismiss all criticism I have provided. Moving on

and some are impossible to avoid. Pull and push specifically will hit you regardless of what you do and easily can setup to hit you with a spell. What happens if you get pulled into Idol meteor during the 2nd phase? Impossible to avoid the damage without agility activating. What happens if you get pushed into a wall as Cybel is charging at you (and yes, Cybel has push and his cores have pull)? Impossible to avoid the damage without agility activating. If you think that you will always have the reaction time and precision to hit a multi-hit before he explodes, then you have high hopes for the spell to not delay even for a millisecond (also spin attack doesn't cancel the explosion, it just stops him midair, as does multi-hit).

 

Cybel's arena has slowness spell, charge, meteor, pull, push and a bunch of other nasty stuff. There are cores that 1 hit me when I have 100 defence and 70 agility, Cybel's phase 05 that just takes a heck load of mana to even stay alive let alone stunlock him. 94 intel isn't that much, because it still takes around 3 mana spins and that adds up fast, a fucking ton of mana will be lost because you only have 4/4 Mana. I countered that by using a Black, which basically made me never run low on mana. Also 3 minutes per boss is stupidly long, especially since you're using Cataclysm. I take an average of 1 min per boss with Nirvana, and around 3 if I fuck up really bad, since I mostly use the Amulet of Rejuvanation. You're missing out on so much just to get 2k more damage than the average.

A) You're gonna end up hitting them once or twice, and Nirvana having a normal attack speed makes it charge faster than the Cataclsyms. Slower attack speed weapons charge faster, and Curse is a much better ability than Chain Lightning. Curse does 210% more damage for like 10 seconds or so. Not sure about timer
Cataclysm is a hybrid? Since when? Nobody told me? Nobody melee's with Cataclysm since it has a Super Fast attack speed. What? Nobody melees with Cataclysm. You spell spam, and kill the enemies before they can blast your glass ass.(Hey that rhymes)
B) Kill streak compared to Concentration? Just lol lmfao
C) Also bullshit that it can survive 1-2 hits. Since you have to have 110 intelligence to equip it, you can pretty much spec fully into Agility/Defence. You can take around 3-4 SPELLS from LI bosses. So thats a white lie, and I know since I have a Nirvana. Your Cataclysm build wont survive against the melee hits, since they usually hit for 8k( How do I know this? I have 70 defence, roughly 70% damage reduction and I take around 3-3.5k damage from melee hits.) So one hit and you're fucked. You fuck up once on Yahya, you'll die.

You got the mechanism long, Cataclysm takes longer since it has super fast attack speed. Charging Curse takes a shorter while since Nirvana has a shorter timer to charge due to slower attack speed.
Let's get this straight. Concentration is OBJECTIVELY better than Killstreak, it can boost 7k Nirvana builds to 11-12k spins. That's a 5k bonus, kill streak wont guarantee you that. Also let's count the list of minions in Legendary Island
Mummyboard- None that spawn quick enough before it dies
Plague Doctor- Invincible mobs so doesn't count
Corkus Accipients- Does have a lot of mini mobs, but they don't spawn quickly enough after the first wave, and most of the time, its dead before they respawn
Matrojan Idol- It does have a lot of forms that can be counted as mini mobs, but not really, there's a fair bit of time between each kill and I think killstreak may die out. I leave this one upto you.
Yahya- Worthless since the boss won't die.
Death Metal- Has mini mobs, but they're more tanky than the boss itself, and most of the time they end up surviving.
Mechorrupter of Worlds- Most of the time with a Cataclysm he's dead before they spawn, but there are some. But very few
Robob- Does have minimobs
Cybel- A fuck ton of minimobs, useful but you need Concentration/Dodge/Endurance more in this situation to stay alive and not die. Rage is also hella useful on melee builds
Dr Legendary- None, you dont have to get near the mobs, because they explode. You're supposed to stay away from them, so getting close to them to kill them with Spin attacks is counterintuitive.
So concentration is OBJECTIVELY better in Legendary Island.

 

You know if you increase Cata build defense the damage will get lower than you imagine. Take for your build, it's overall quite good having good ele def good mana good damage but it deletes cata's extinctive taste (glass canon).
And nirvana can be much better to use that build. What I'm saying is that higher def for glass canon means meh damage meh defense which can not get much from it. You may say 'use slayer' but this build is for low budget playerd who spent all their money on buying cata

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Please cool down you are just condemning my build and saying it's just an advice it makes me upset so why don't you speak gently when you're having a different opinion
Ps. I will try answering your opinion in order

 

First of all I said up above that I got the machanism wrong of charging special abilities
Second when I said cata is hybrid I meant that you use your melee a lot compared to Nirvana I know it's not classified as hybrid but I kinda use melee a lot with Cata
Third, I agreed that Nirvana build is better and that means I gave up on saying thunder build > water build
And I stopped arguing about that because it's out of the question.
As I'm reading up what you've said I began to think that you just wanna disagree with my opinion. I mean I admitted that Nirvana can make a better build because by2011 told it quite logically.
You're now just telling the same thing to me again about what's better with Nirvana build. and that's making me quite irritating since I felt that you are laughing at me what I said wrong.
Sure you can disagree to my comment but you shouldn't just laugh at my opinion.
You should think and look at the previous comment that I got it wrong before you write out by just taking a glimpse at my opinion

 

Sorry if I seemed rude in second place, not my intention, just was listening to music and not seeing what I was typing. I meant to give advice, but yes I strongly state that the build is horrible, and a waste of a Cataclysm. You need to look at damage, and Cataclysm glass cannon just.does.not.work. You'll die before you get to output that stunning damage

 

Summary: read before you speak

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I never meant to dismiss your disagreement, I just wanted to say that it is quite usable. While it's just a theory you are talking about, real situation can be different when using my build and I'm talking about that. While you argue that assassin do not have the kind of survivability, It worked out quite well for me. But I do apologize if it sounded that way.

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See you are still using the offending word as horrible waste you're just not sorry.
And that is far away from 'giving advice'
I may use it horribly and waste it.
But you can use other expressions like 'not good'
For instance: I strongly suggest that the build is not the best in my opinion, and
It's not a good use for cata.

If you don't get what I'm saying and still choose to be that way then there can be a problem in your personality

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Maybe I haven't told this here but I said before that this build can go just up to cybel. Yes it's not a good build if you can not solo cybel. However I never said that this build is optimal. It's better modified when you use slayer.
Then why am I keep adding comments? As I said up above I am disagreeing with your opinions just to fix misconceptions about my build.

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The comments have been mixed sorry about that. Please separate the latest three comments and look at the ones that you've been quoted

 

It seems to me that you're just intent on deflecting criticism. You said that you wanted opinions on why we thought your build was bad, I went on to elaborate, but you seem to be deflecting it towards the fact that it seems to work. You say that you are fixing misconceptions but all I can see in @Tseries and @by2011's post is them giving honest feed back, you keep on deflecting it, so I'm just going to leave it at that.
and hence I'll leave you to your build since you don't wish to seem my criticism We keep on going in circles, and that is just unproductive. So I'll just leave this build and go.
https://wynndata.tk/s/hj6BCX
(Before you jump on me by, understand that it was built in 2 mins or so, so dont jump on me kthxbai)

 

Like Inferno said, you keep trying to dodge and/or deflect criticism. Yes, you did say you only managed to get up to Cybel. The better question is, why on earth did you keep saying it could beat cybel if you yourself couldn't do so? You've stated multiple times in fact that charge is easy to dodge and such on Cybel, yet you still say you haven't beat it.

It's usable like we've all said, but as I said in what I believe was the first time I ever commented on the build (and what many others have stated) is that it is not optimal (as you have now admitted yourself). You continue to try and make it seem optimal by arguing all our points, but you're really not considering the points we make and any time we provide criticism you just say "yeah I know it's not optimal but hey it can do stuff so nothing else matters!", making all of our points seem irrelevant.

This is a glorified way of the points I have just said. If anything, you are ignoring us more than we are ignoring you. Honestly at this point I partially agree with just doing this.

 

What the hell is wrong with you guy you can't read? I said that my build is not optimal it's just a low cost build for players with less budget.
Plus were you helping to improve my build? you were just criticizing about bad things about my build. You should have given me a substitute if you wanna help. If you don't like my build you should have a substitue for a piece of armor that you do not like. That's why it's going in circles.And I never had bad intentions on my opinions since we were arguing on the topic I was not ignoring you guys instead I just wanted to express my opinion. It's called a debate.
Be honest are you trying to criticize my build or to help me. If you were to help me then you should have a better option for it.
And I never said my build can solo cybel. quote it for me?

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I agreed with the part that I got it wrong I never deflected it all lmao
And your attitude is not a good one either you just blaming me for 'wasting my cata' lel

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If you are to leave me, fine.
But think for yourself if you were giving honest feedback or just criticism covered with the word of feedback

 

at first, basically all of us gave feedback (basically you need more mana/tankiness), but you essentially rejected it and said "but it works" even though we were giving you advice to improve your build. i'll admit i personally ended up going on a tangent, but we're both to blame here.

 

Yes I'm sorry if I sounded like I was just rejecting your idea.
However my point here is that I would have accepted the opinion if you guys have proved your opinion in a example of build. (Inferno kinda tried to do this but there was a flaw in his build and I didn't like his attitude of sounding like he was blaming me) I didn't know where I got my build wrong like you said so I may have sounded like I was just rejecting your opinion. I owe you an apology for it.

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There was someone on forum who told me the substitute build similar to this by fixing the flaws it had (we talked in discord)
I agreed to his opinion as whole unlike here and accepted it because he proved it was capable of holding both mana and hp while having good damage which makes it superior to mine

 

I'm starting to wonder the same question for you.

You keep saying it's not optimal, but everytime we bring up something you try to argue how it actually is optimal. Make up your mind. Also, if you call a cata build low cost there's already a problem because it's literally cata.

As far as I've seen, people have given you improvements to the build, yet you denied them. Also, yeah I agree I've only been saying negative things about the build.

Let's completely ignore this I guess they aren't compliments.

You are either A. misinterpreting what I said or B. trying to twist what I said, because what I actually said was

Which is what you've done.

Since Cybel has charge, this applies to it.

Cybel also has meteor, so this applies to it.
If you want an actual improvement to the build from me that you might not ignore now, swap spectrum to third eye, discharge to leo, finesse to lodestone, gold hydro brace to dia static, and gigabyte to dia hydro neck https://wynndata.tk/s/6cZCMV. Before you say that it has less dps or something, it actually probably has more because it has 5/4s more mr than yours. It also has enough hp to sustain itself along with that mana sustain with not terrible defenses.

 

Saying that it can beat meteor and charge doesn't mean that it can beat cybel because cybel has thunder elemental defense which makes it hard for my build to get through it you shouldn't just consider the spells it's charging am i getting it wrong again?
And I never seen you make a substitute build for me you just point out what is wrong and doesn't tell how to fix it

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There you just gave me a generic build that's good I accept it
But before, you were just criticizing defects of my build and not giving me a replacement which made me to counter your statement. I do not express my counter-opinion that much when I actually see the build because I can literally check it out myself.

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Plus I never said my build is optimal.
What is optimal? It is a perfect option for something that happens. I NEVER said it was the best build in wynn I just said it's quite usable that's all.

And plus again, I never blamed you for criticizing my build. You got it wrong.
I blamed you because you just criticized and hadn't given me an answer. That's quite different you know. Ok you complimented my build. So? Have you given any substitute for downside of it?