Guilds Are One Of The Best Parts Of Wynn

There really isn't a pattern of constant toxicity. You act as if there's always some kind of shitshow going on when in reality the guild community is chill 90% of the time

This exact argument could be made over literally any group of people that share a common interest or goal. And no, I've seen just as much toxicity from the regular Wynncraft community as I have from guilds. Are we all forgetting that Selvut and the rest of the item team received death threats over minor nerfs and changes?

I've been involved in the guild community for years and there is only a single time I've been made aware of, with proof, that someone was receiving actual death threats.

Wow, it's almost as if like the vast majority of people DO know how to control themselves and that it's just a few cunts that give the rest of the guild community a bad name. You can't look at a few toxic assholes and act as if that means the guild community as a whole is to blame or is even the main reason behind it. Correlation =/= Causation is the main argument I've been making. Just because drama happens IN guilds doesn't mean guilds themselves are to blame.

I don't know about you but I've always interpreted the phrase "a few bad apples ruin the bunch" to mean "a few bad people run the reputation of the bunch"
I've always seen that phrase as a misinterpreted criticism of the way people blame entire groups for the acts of a few

Except I've never once attempted to defend the people doing awful things. I've only attempted to defend the guild community as a whole.

Except I only said that like twice at most. That was most definitely never intended to be an argument in favor of the guild community, and was merely an observation for the people that seem to think guilds are currently worse than they've ever been when in reality it's just that guilds were so dead for so long that people forgot how competitive and controversial an active guild community gets.

 

guilds are cool i like guilds

 

firstly

hey thats my wallpaper on my monitor

anyway listen up a bit here, I'll give you all a few fun bits of info and address all of the major points I've seen so far.

1: Wars are boring. Yes, at times, they are ridiculously boring. I've participated in nearly 4000 of them now and I get tired of them often, but honestly it's a personal opinion thing. I do wars to control land because I like the changing of hands stuff and territory management, some might do it because they like fighting, and others may not do it at all because the entire aspect of guild warring just doesn't interest them. That's fine, you don't have to participate. All I ask however is that if you think guild wars are boring, speak properly and say "Personally, I think guild wars are boring", not "guild wars are boring". It's not a fact, it's an opinion, and I haven't seen a single person state that correctly this entire thread.

2: Guilds are toxic. Alright, here's the big one, and do me a favor and read this closely. I won't deny it, over the years on Wynn, guilds and/or people in guilds have been involved in a lot of fucked up shit and drama. There's conversations, pictures, and more to prove that, and saying it doesn't exist is pointless.

But is it because of guilds? No. It's not. Pull this out of Wynn for a second. Think to yourself, "what breeds and cultivates toxicity"? You should come to the conclusion that it's something from interactions between people: it's pretty hard to become toxic in a single player game in general. So, going from that, we can say for sure that multiplayer games are the most likely to breed and encounter toxicity in players. Now, Wynn is multiplayer, and Wynn has a good bit of toxicity. Guilds are too, they must be hella toxic too right? Well, yes, but that isn't the only factor there. One of the largest accelerators and generators of toxic behavior is simple competition. Guilds have that too. So, guilds are toxic because they're competitive..?

Yes, this argument can be made, and honestly it's the most logical one I can think of. However, is it really the fault of guilds, or is it the players specifically?

Look at it this way. Think of some other multiplayer competitive games. Literally every competitive shooter game fits in that category, Minecraft pvp fits there (Hypixel is a fantastic example if you don't believe me), and so does even god damn Geometry Dash. Yeah, that game has toxicity issues, and the game's concept is becoming a square and making it into a portal at the end of user-created levels.

It may seem like I'm going way off on a tangent here (and I kind of am), but what I'm trying to say is that it's not the inherent fault of guilds that toxicity is brewed in them, it's the people inside of them that create such environments.

Yeah, you're probably thinking "what the hell, why did you make me read so much for such a simple point that I could've guessed earlier go die in a hole", and that's justifiable I guess, but the background was necessary to explain this final part.

How is this toxicity created? Why guilds? Why not the market for example, where economic competitivity exists? Wouldn't that work too?

One last example to make this clear. Imagine you and one other person don't really get along. You're in one guild that holds a good bit of territories, they're in another. An argument erupts, members of both guilds witness it, and before you know it you have two sides both flinging accusations wildly. What could happen next? Well, threats, or one side wipes the other side's territories, brewing more anger. Were guilds designed for this? I doubt it (and sure as hell hope not), but it was an unintended side effect. Should guilds be reformed due to this? No. An easy solution is much stricter moderation. I respect the mod team, I honestly do, but every situation involving drama within guilds the mods seem to just not extensively care about due to personal biased opinions, and thusly it goes to Jp, who's job isn't even to be a moderator. No, I don't hate staff, I just think there needs to be some part of the team specifically equipped for guilds that can defuse drama before it gets so out of hand and publicized like it often does.

So, to conclude, since I've swapped topics like ten times now:
Guild wars are an opinion based topic, there is no "they are bad" or "they are good".
Guild drama isn't because of guilds inherently, it's because of the competitive pressures and exposure to other people around you who can back you up in an argument, helping confidence of the shy and ending up starting more drama.
The mod team needs a guild division, or just some training for certain mods to deal with guilds (ideally those who wouldn't be biased toward either side and are completely uninvolved).

Have a nice read I guess, that's just my.. probably like 100 cents.

 

Alright, my post is mostly gonna be repeating the same points as Drew's pretty much with a little touch of personal stories.
(I would just like to say that anything said is not a jab at anyone and I will keep anyone involved anonymous.)

As many others before me have stated, guild drama is just player drama that is somehow now caused by guilds apparently because the two parties were from different guilds. The only example of recent fully guild related drama would be (one that is private actually, so I won't mention it) one involving myself, which is when Ex Nihilo and Lunatic came together to make Odysseia and went against Federation, which we got extreme amounts of unnecessary hate for. Even though the disagreements were caused solely by guilds, the real drama started when it became personal to the point of large groups of people hating our guts for simply going against them, which is what I believe the actual problem to be. People taking guilds too goddamn serious. Sure you can get involved in the politics and everything, but you shouldn't suddenly start hating people who used to be your allies and friends for months because they are not affiliated with the alliance you are in. That's outrageous, stupid, terrible and the problem I have with guilds.

 

I really don't think you can make someone start liking guilds debating their opinions btw

I like guilds, but wars are just too repetitive for me so I like the people more than the game part of it

 

This man summarized my opinions... why do we even need all these pages of the same opinion?

 

Guilds are not the best part of wynn

 

how much did your royal high super French name council pay you to make this advertisement

put this in nemracts bar


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But seriously, guilds are infatuated with roleplay, kids who think having a french inspired hierarchy is cool, drama, and toxicity.

If you remember the old days of HackForums, it was dedicated, skilled, powerful players putting their heads together to soon control an entire map through brute force, strategy, and power alone.

Now, its edgy kids roleplaying and spending half their time on the forums getting into heated flame wars when someone dares defile their holy organization! and shit like that.

(Don't worry, ill prove right when fox, imp, and all of that lot come running to me to tell me how I'm wrong and thinking bollocks)

 

The reign of Hax was literally just because of how broken guilds were. They abused a broken system that nobody cared about in order to control the map. It was also one of the most toxic reigns in Wynn history. There's a reason like 75% of the Wynn community hated Hax when they owned the entire map.

It is quite literally the opposite of how you paint it.
Back then it was a few no lifers with access to alt accounts and alt guilds abusing a broken system that nobody even really cared about.

There’s a reason Hax fell as soon as alt warring was banned and a couple people doing all the warring quit or were banned.

 

may I point out that you're the one guy who consistently calls that alliance a piece of shit

honestly if anything you're just hurting your own point here mate

 

Are you seriously criticizing people for dedicating themselves to something they enjoy and have fun doing? And if anything, you’re the toxic one here trying to cause drama.

And the guilds that control the map today are exactly that. I’d argue that we’re even more dedicated and skilled due to how we always outclass the competition, and because of that we deserve to hold the map.

Once again, why are you criticizing people for having fun? And that second point could not be any more false. The majority of guild related toxicity I’ve seen was made by ignorant people and directed toward guilds. Your post only proves this further.

Oh so if we defend ourselves with logical reasoning when you decide to make an attack on us like that we are the ones doing wrong?????

This was made 100% from myself, nobody paid or even told me to do it. I made the post because my experience in guilds was amazing, and due to all the misconceptions, I wanted to share my experience with everyone so they could see what they were missing out on.

 

lol

 

I tend to have a tendency to call out bullshit when I see it.

You do know I was part of the Alliance twice?

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Yet nobody else could even stop them even with their own abuse?

With the situation st the time Hax was unstoppable despite if you abused or not.

They just got used to it, and definitely didn't have 13 different guilds at once attacking them at the time.

You call them no-lifers yet the only reason you play this server is because of guilds. That's all you do.

Also, wynn has never been more toxic. I've been here since... 2013? 5 years. I've NEVER seen it this toxic as 2017-18

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Read the bold lines.

 

Hax had control because nobody else wanted to deal with the broken system that was absolutely painful to use at the time. When guilds were fixed their reign shortly fell. At the same time, by your logic, why don’t those who oppose us organize an alliance and coordinate something to take us down? If we can do what we did with an alliance, so can another group.

If you’re not trying to criticize us for having fun, then why even bother mention the roleplaying and hierarchies and call us “edgy” for having them?

Also, if you’re going to accuse us of toxicity and starting flame wars, care to provide an example? During the two year period which I was an outsider, I never saw anything toxic related to guilds, and during my 8 months (and counting) in guilds so far, I only saw that toxicity was as common as in other places at worst. The majority of guild-related toxicity is people like you making pointless attacks on guilds and alliances for no reason, especially here where I am showing appreciation. Keep in mind, I’ve been here for 4 years total so I’ve seen a lot.

Tell me, why do you come to my thread about a positive experience with an under-appreciated system and flame the shit out of us? Just because you somehow managed to have such a horrible experience doesn’t allow you to go around and shit on us whenever you get the chance. Stop it.

 

Pleased to meet you. I hope you have already learned my name.

I'll edit this post when I'm back from school.

 

You sure you were on the same server?

2015-2016 was toxic as all hell. Funny how this was also within direct correlation with the Hax takeover, but also all the other broken guild shit that happened in that time. It's actually smoothed out a lot anyways ever since a few events smoothed stuff out.

2018 had it's toxic moments, but none have ever risen to the forum-wide flame wars of the past few years.

 

You act as if I'm a no lifer when I only log in to Wynn like once every other day.

And if you've never seen Wynn this toxic, you're the least observant person I know, it was WAY worse in the past.

It's so ironic that you think we're the toxic ones but you're FAR more toxic, constantly shitting on the top guilds and insulting us wherever we go. You have no self awareness.

 

no-lifers do not need to be active.
You play Wynn for the sole purpose of guilds and would quit if they were gone.

Trust me, it's never been this toxic. You just aren't looking in the right places.

Perhaps it isn't large, forum wide toxicity, but in between, there is some flame-filled shit. A lot of it.

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Perhaps I be toxic so you finally notice and maybe think "hold on, what, i've been doing that?"

Here's something to think on:

There was this helper on hypixel. Abused his power, cheated, held the idiot ball a lot over people that called him out, trash talked players, was in a guild where the leader constantly ddosed people and said rude shit 99% of the time, which he never punished him for. Helped guilds cheat in guild battles even though it was immoral across the entire community.

It had gotten to a point where the staff didn't even care. I decided to deal with it.

I tried the nice guy approach, he didn't care. Said thank you, he would change his actions, he didn't change one bit. I tried professional. Same result. I went blunt, told him the facts without any niceness, but no rudeness. He got annoyed and warned me.

I went toxic, the mega walls community joined in, he got frustrated, told us we were all hateful and were spewing lies just because we didn't like him, and banned us all. Mods saw how much bullshit he had in him and told him "you're out, we can't have you anymore"

And no, I couldn't report him. Hypixel Report System is useless and half of the time they won't even ban the reported people unless it's a chat offense. The Staff Manager has done nothing to fix the team's behavior at all.

Since then, that's how I've done things. Sometimes I feel like an asshole about doing it, but that experience on hypixel told me that unless I aim for the throat nothing will change, even if I have to get punished in the process.

 

To be fair, Drew has managed several alliances and has been around for a long time, so I’m sure he’s seen a lot of stuff that’s happened, most likely more than you. Because of that, I think his view on the amount of toxicity is perfectly valid.

And look, the thing you speak of on hypixel is rarely ever the case. You may have did what you had to there, but the majority of the time, being toxic will only make you look like a fool and result in your points being ignored. I, as well as most others, are more likely to listen if you were to remain respectful instead of flaming us at every chance given. Of course we may disagree with each other, and that’s perfectly fine too.

And if I may ask, is there any specific reason as to why you have some kind of vendetta against those in guilds? Not all of us are bad. Just like most other places, only a small portion of the guild community are actually toxic, and those who do such things are usually kicked. My guild experience has been mostly positive, as it’s further enhanced my Wynn experience and allowed me to meet many interesting people who’ve become my friends, where I could not have met them any other way. Just because you disagree with something due to whatever happened if anything, it doesn’t make my points and experiences invalid.

And once again, I’ve said this a lot I know, but stop criticizing people for having fun. Why are you calling Drew a no-lifer for dedicating time and effort into something he enjoys doing?

 

No lifers are somebody who devotes their life to one specific activity because they have absolutely nothing better to do in their spare time. One such example is somebody who plays video games more than 12 hours a day because they have nothing better to do. No activity is extempt from this though, and video games can't be singled out, this applies to sports, outdoor activities, etc...

It was more toxic after gavel came out and hax was the powerhouse.