Info Im Team Applications + Item Rebalance Changelog

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUUUUUUUUUUUUU I NEED LIFE STEAL ON MY FLAMESHOT BUILD

 

use heat sink

 

1) Spring is better used with earth. It has a strength req and perhaps the dexterity is being nerfed for a reason.
2) T-Tide is also getting hard nerfed, I'm almost certain you can't hit those bomb numbers with t-tide post nerf.
3) Spring gets curse, mana regen, more intel, doesn't kill your melee damage or fire damage (important due to bomb conversion) and it doesn't have defense negatives.

If you want to compare something, then compare them fairly. As in, use them where they're meant to be used best. Yes, most water builds use some form of dexterity due to broken-pattern aegis but that doesn't mean spring has to. The nerf was specifically to discourage dexterity more than it already did (which was barely, to be fair).

 

1 )The first test senario used a 0 Dex build with gaea hewn boots, ophiucus, and aphotic. It was meant to show the huge damage decrease post nerf even used in it's natural element. IMO it was plenty a fair comparison.

1.5) Earth makes Spring squishy due to lack of defensive typing in AGI, I've tried several builds and pre nerf thunder or earth glass cannon was always more effective.

2) I did use post nerf Ttide, same builds as the spring tests

3) Damage still remains relatively the same, and curse on archer (at least from a guild war perspective) is too difficult to charge reliably due to squishiness

As for your last point; why? It chokes flexibility from the item and eliminates the option of using dex entirely for no reason I can see other than balance which could be easily approached in other ways (thematically it makes no sense either). The double nerf is enough to completely make DEX variations of spring completely obselete.

So does infused hive bow, which does more dmg then spring with the same builds post nerf, doesn't cost 6.5+ stx and is still usable with DEX

 

And in there spring has a 1.1k damage lead along with lower spell cost. So yeah, didn't know you used E/W/F. Link the full builds, please.

It has defensive typing in fire which, although worse on archer, still grants enough bulk. Archer has the natural mobility and range to evade damage either way. It's worse than agility, but so is everything else. 100% damage mitigation is always going to be superior.

Include the full build links, please. Those numbers don't seem right so I'd like to see the build.

Guild wars aren't everything. Spring cleans though LI with ease so I'd say that balances out fairly well. Bad in one aspect, great in another.

I don't get what you mean by curse being too difficult to charge during wars due to squishiness. There's lots of mobs so aiming wouldn't even be that difficult. If you mean having to swap to a potion or something else, then yeah. That's far from an issue on spring alone, though.

Didn't seem to choke flexibility in the builds you posted. The earth variation only had 500 damage more and, as you said, not having agil makes it squishy but that has agility. 500 damage less on bombs for more reliable (haha luck based) tanking seems pretty fair. Doesn't seem choked at all. T-Tide still has 9% less damage in what you cited in your previous post on top of all it's other negatives and spring's positives. Don't know why you said 'almost 100% matches' when it very clear does not.

Important reason FYI.

Suggest another way, I'll be glad to listen. The overall theme of the item discouraged thunder investment (no damage or dexterity). We simply amplified that to a point where it actually mattered because before it could easily be shrugged off as both of those traits were minor.

In the builds you posted (which should still be linked) didn't seem to make dexterity (and agility since they go hand in hand, pretty much) obsolete as they had a relatively small damage decrease in exchange for agility. Obsolete isn't the word you should be using.

 

Link plx

Just because you couldn't, doesn't mean it's not a valid option. No offense, but there are str int spring builds.
@Major_Lue posted while I was writing rip.

 

...what got nerfed that ruined your Flameshot Hilt build's life steal...?

 

https://wynndata.tk/s/8YXC19< Something I slapped together for a more damage oriented variety of spring (not sure if this is exactly the same one I used earlier)
https://wynndata.tk/s/t3gRPQ < Pure glass cannon build I used to test (unviable ik)

The latter was used by a guildmate of mine for maximum dmg output on spring. It used to do around 13-14k pre nerf

Spring might be better thant Ttide post nerf, no doubt about that, not so much than infused hive

[ I don't think DEF provides quite the bulk that AGI does. It makes it harder or impossible to survive heavy charge/ flamethrower in LI and wybel especially, and in wars snipers shred faster than if you have AGI. You also lose a ton of MS, which makes dodging things significantly harder

[Yes that's exactly what I mean; charging curse fully in wars is near impossible for archers and since it only hits 6 mobs at a time it's not exactly useful whatsoever unless you're playing fatal mage, which even then is better with courage. I get that wars isn't a huge part of lategame content but it does affect players and it should at least be slightly considered while balancing?

[It makes most DEX items extremely unviable, and considering how many options there are for it it's quite a big chunk in flexibility

[That argument is dependent on if you roll literally perfect -DEX on your spring; not likely in tandum with 20% water dmg, and you could be losing up to 800 dmg if you roll poorly

[Instead of nerfing flexibility and double nerfing why not instead nerf items around it like BPA, or give it an STR boost to encourage use of earth instead of DEX to keep DEX semi viable as an option instead of just making it terrible so STR is the only option

[70 DEF for 40 AGI isn't the greatest tradeoff either, and as mentioned earlier you need a perfect roll on -DEX which the other does not.


As well, IHB needs to be touched on; it's doing more than spring in the base builds (will attach proof below later), viable with DEX, and has less reqs + it's a legendary (curse as well). All it doesn't have is HPR but with these new spring changes you're not likely going AGI anyways bc of DEX changes

That text wall is making me dizzy post writing, but hopefully I came across ok with what I'm trying to get at

There are, but earth + air has awful synergy compared to thunder and air or rainbow, and ideally you don't want DEF on archer

https://wynndata.tk/s/dScMRE Rainbow

https://wynndata.tk/s/8YXC19 Thunder Air

I dunno if I've ever gotten or received a spring build that can use STR AGI and be as viable as the following two

 

Let's start talking about Grandmother for a bit here...

 

gma is amazing wdym?

 

I think gma is good enough compared to this :
https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/earth-archer-2018-including-criticism.222930/

 

I didnt say Gma is bad.
Its actually way too overpowered in my opinion.

 

please do this more often

also wheres monster
jk jk
but like i noticed that you are buffing a level 12 unique bow, when monster is still so underwhelming

 

monster is pretty ok if you ask me

 

why is it underwhelming?

 

well no i mean plz add lifesteal on flameshot lmao
idc the damage being lower than it should be, just add life steal plz xD

 

Then it would literally just be Apocalypse but worse.

 

use heat sink/drain on your build