Raw Spell And Poison Rant +assassin Rant

For real as of now there is no way to guard this two spells, which totally hurts the heart of those who want to be a true tank.
Poison is even worse, I work super hard to block all its earth and thunder damage and it still does me 5k cus of its poison 11!
At least Im this way because I have 6000 earth defence. What if for those people who do not have earth defence? They receive poison damage on TOP of the earth and thunder damages. 12k poison also breaks down even the toughest of all tanks.
Im not saying they sohuld be removed. They are a entire part of a game and what makes people interested in wynn. But I really wish that there was a method to block raw spell or poison damage, so at least I on the behalf of all tanks or duel lovers can have a least option to try and strive to achieve this feat.
In my opinion, the practical solution would be to be made raw spell be defended just as any neutral damages, depending on how many def sp the player has. Plus, perhaps add new Id such as poison resistance to give people an option to nullify poison. This way, we can also add poison ability to mobs since there now will be a way to block them somehow.

And furthermore, I would like to mention about assassin weps. Right now @CalAnders is having a same problem and I believe so many others also are in this situation. Regardless of what element they are aiming for, water, thunder, air , earth, or fire, assassin weapons are just rigged. To explain more lively , its something like this:

"Imma make thunder build" ... Later on the day: a guy with cataclysm says "haha I have more def than yours yet i have far more dmg than you cus i have dat cata !!"
Im not hating on people who have cataclysms, but the system is unright. Cataclysm as of now costs nearly 10+ stacks of LE and such price can be sound overwhelming for majority of wynn population. Yes, riches might suppose 10 stacks can be earned with hard work and attempt, but for many people out there in fact, they do not have as much time or dedication to create a shop for hunt for legendaries day and night, or at least, have a loot bonus to start with. Now playing wynn for 5 years, I've seen a lot of these situations. Of course, they might say its a lack of dedication and that's why the person should not deserve such a wonderful weapon as cataclysm, but that's not my point. The sole existence of cataclysm demotivates so many people from making thunder builds. Mythics should indeed be better than legendary, but a gap between cataclysm and infused hive dagger(closest thing to it) is just too huge. 20k+ damage difference. I mean, come on. This is like a gap between oak bow and a decent grandmother build.

Now i'd rather stop debating about this if cataclysm was the only issue.
Now ill try to persuade you in logics, so please watch this carefully.

The riggedness chart of each class's weapons:
Assassin:(Spin attack)
max is according to putting the weapon in a classic glass build of the element in wynndata.
Cataclysm(max 40k~) <-> Infused hive dagger(t65/5 thunder, max 15k~)
Grimtrap:(max 12k~ + Poison + Thorns) <-> Nona, (6k~), Infuesd hive dagger(max 8k~),Wall breaker (max 5k~)
Weathered:(Max 15k~) <-> Blur/infused hive dagger/ivory (max 7k~)

Nirvana = Infused hive dagger ( this one is nearly the same)

Infenro (Max 8k~) <-> Infused hive dagger (Max 5k~)

Warrior:
Idol = Infused hive spear (nearly same)
Alkatraz = Infused hive spear (nearly same in spell)
Thrundacrack(max 35k~) <-> Infused hive spear (max 22k~) this is nothing comapred to cata
Guardian = infused hive spear > Apoc (In spell)
Hero (19.8k) <-> Zepha shredders(18.4k) Compare this with weathred's riggedness.

Archer:
Strati (17k) <-> Infused hive bow (12k) Again. only 5k.
Gma(19.8k) <-> Alka comeflinger (12.6k) Note: Grandma has an actual drawback. - health regen. Not like cataclysm that -3000 which is totally compensated by the freedom of armor given by such a huge dmg of it
Spring(17k) <=> Tttide(17k) I know the ranges, but at least they have chances.
Divzer(25k) <-> Infused hive bow (14k) 11k diff ? Now what the cata say " i got double dat'
Freedom <=> Infused hive bow rainbow rainbow is actually possible in archer
Ignis (15.4k) <=> Infused hive bow (11.8k)


And ill skip the mage for time issues, but mage also displays a similar pattern that is unlike assassin.

And now you can see how big is the gap for assassins and how rigged are mythics weps.
I expect riots and commotions, but this was it for my rant. Thanks

 

just skimming through

 

Then how are we supposed to beat Tank..

Game must be 'Full tank to win'.

Poison/Raw spell build to break tanks, and another builds will break poison builds again, and the other builds will.
- This loop keeps the balance, imo

 

I would also agree that tanks must have weaknesses and raw damage/poison is a typical weakness of tanks in video games, it shouldn't be possible to block these. Thats how these weaknesses work, they are equally effective against every enemy, but because the tanky one cant use his biggest strength, he is in disadvantage. I would even add more options like this, like an "armor-penetration"-id (if the system would allow it), although these weaknesses should be balanced of course, they shouldn't be an instant win.
And its true, at least from raw numbers (I dont have much PvP experience) poison is somehow op in duels, 10k-12k poison is basically a oneshot against most players if they dont heal within these three seconds. The thing is, Wynncraft didn't put too much effort in PvP, maybe a future update could help in this regard and balance duels by reducing poison damage in duels, for example.

 

your damages are completely fucked, ttide 17k is not possible, inferno 8k lmao
wtf is with idol = infused hive, Idol is def much better, you're using full glass values for some and some full mana regen build for other damage values or something

 

can u post at least some of the builds you used in this section theyre doing my and the construction boys' heads in

 

Especially for thunder weapons, you should know that hardly anyone compares weapons through their maximum damage. You need to look at the average since thunder weapons have a large range of damage.

 

Wait what do you mean mythics are totally much better than legendaries who could have thought of that

 

Sorry but wynndata said it. Furthermore I only put standards in damage, and all weapons were placed under same build



Also guys please dont take this seriously as this is just my opinion and all I want from this thread is just a silent sense of sympathy to be made in those of who agree with this thread. I really mean no more.

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I tried best to put emphasis in the max damage the weapon can deal. My main idea was that cataclysm's gap from legend wep was excessive.

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Als

o rmb there is hardly any way to block poison atm othet than heal

 

Oops. My bad it actually goes up to 12k without glass hp https://wynndata.tk/s/ChIWJD
:p dont underestimate inferno

Who would have thought ttide 19k is possible? https://wynndata.tk/s/E6yJcb

Idol full t6 water is normal 339to 431
Infused hive spear full t6 water is normal 383 to 453 hmmmmmmmm
Only talking 'bout max dmg here

Blame wynndata

 

Who does PvP anymore?

 

Ok, look. About your whole rant against poison/raw spell. They're designed to be sources of neutral damage that bypass elemental defense so that someone like you can't just build full tank, slap together a ton of hp/rainbow defense and be immune to everything. You're literally just complaining "I'm a tank, I'm taking damage, please nerf whatever is able to damage me" and it's unreasonable. Raw spell just got rebalanced a couple patches ago anyway. As for those 12k poison builds, they only thing they're good at is breaking down huge elemental tanks. They usually die if anything else breathes on them.

Also, you do have some defense against neutral damage in your neutral defense. The defense skill point affects neutral damage and it reduces % damage taken. I'm guessing you have a rainbow tank, so your neutral defense skill is gonna be relatively low. (someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how the def sp works)

People have said this before, but your damages for some of the weapons are fucked up. I don't think Cata can hit 40k spins. The best I got was ~26k with this: https://wynndata.tk/s/AK09B2 even then, this build has 1.8k hp and massive negative defs. Cata is never used in this context and its typical damage is much lower.

I've also never heard of 15k spins from a weathered. The best I got was ~12k with this: https://wynndata.tk/s/RTWmF4 and again, it has 2.9k hp, massive negative defs, and negative hp regen. Weathered is also never used in this context, and the typical weathered build with god-like ID rolls gets a 9k spin. My build averages 7-8k.

I'm also pretty sure that ttide doesn't hit 17k bombs. Usually, when I use it with my scraped together lvl 80-90ish builds, I hit 7-8k maybe 9k bombs.

I don't have experience with the rest of the weapons you listed, but I'm pretty sure some are still off.

Not this isn't even getting to the fact that comparing weapons by maximum possible dps is stupid. Comparing weapons by only their max dps (and nothing else) is kinda like comparing people by how well they do in school, and nothing else. Like yes, dps and grades both are important, but they're not all that matter. There's more to weapons than just dps, not to mention that weapons are never used at their max dps. Taking assassin weapons for example, weathered is used because of its high ws and agility combined with good spells. Grimtrap is used to be a slow-earth damage type of playstyle. Cata is meant for massive dps, hence the massive negative hp. Armor choices need to be able to counteract this negative hp and so it reduces the damage by a good amount. You're just throwing off this stat saying "freedom of armor for compensation isn't enough" which it is. You CAN go full damage, but you're gonna have 1k hp.

Mana regen/intel, as well as melee capabilities, are a big factor in dps. Some weapons lend themselves better to hybrid (like singularity), others are almost exclusively used in melee form (apoc and alka). Comparing these weapons by the max damage on one spell is again a really close-minded way to look at things and inaccurate.

Also, Mythics are kinda supposed to be better than legendaries. They're mythics. These super rare items are supposed to be a good bit better than other legendary weapons. Just like legendary weapons are better than rares which are better than uniques.

This thread just consists of you complaining about what your build is weak to, then exaggerating stats to make your case, ignoring any other factors.

Next time just do your research first, and maybe take a step back and realize that the game is not balanced around your one build. Almost everything you said is either blatantly wrong/biased or you're just complaining about the fact that these mythic weapons you don't yet have are more powerful than what you do have. Then again, it's your rant.

 

I understand your point but thse damahes were what i have physically saw in wynndata, i did not just put random values. @AndhyIrfanID_ can deal 41k spins with cata just to mention. Also creating rainbow tank thats immune to everything is in fact already impossible. I only made it possible through switching armors for each cases possible. Most mythic weapons can alrrady break down standard rainbow tank with ease. I hope you understand all these factors and damages are not a mere exaggeration and this not just a childish act to make muself overpowered. And of coursw judging weapon solely by dps isnt entirely a good idea, but weapons playstyle and additive features imo only add up to its strength. It is my rant and I could not handle myself to be completrly objective but I appreciate your devoted time in replying to this thread.

 

Can you link the builds you used to get these numbers?

As for the 41k spins, I'm pretty certain that the build probably has less than 5k hp and isn't really usable for anything other than pvp duels for fun. Which brings me to the point that weapons like Cata have drawbacks. In order to get these insane damages, you pretty much sacrifice all defensive stats.

Cata is strong, there's no denying that, but it's not unbalanced. Those are 2 different things.

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Like dude I'm sorry, but the way you compared everything in order to back up your rant is just invalid and blatantly wrong.

 

wtf? you aren't accounting for multiple things,
1. spammability of idol, +2/4 MR + 26 intel goes a long way
2. Raw spell, idol's max goes to 555, so 2k~ neutral damage every uppercut that isn't blockable
https://wynndata.tk/s/KqQGL6 (yes i know double hive isnt possible, but this is to show the damage difference between idol + infused hive spear)
https://wynndata.tk/s/mHuT7W
1k damage difference, with idol 2k is unblockable, more if you're using raw spell items.
and the fact Idol is full water, meaning +x% water damage is much more effective on idol than infused hive.
(you're also only looking at maxes for high range weapons, ex: ttitde, thunder weapons etc)

 

stupid walls of texts

anyway, max damage is actually a REALLY BAD WAY of comparing things.

say one mythic has a range from 10k-30k spin attacks. that means on average, you will do 20k spin attacks.
say a legendary does 12k-14k spin attacks. that's an average of 13k spin attacks.

seems relatively balanced (i guess?) if you look at the average (the most common outcome), which gives you the most accurate representation of data.

however, you looked that max damage. the mythic does 30k spin attacks max and the legendary does 14k spin attacks. the way you listed it out makes the mythic look straight up overpowered, but that's with godlike rng. to get max damage on each spin is stupid. you talk about how you compare the max potential damage but you don't look at the minimum potential damage.

if you compare ttide and spring, spring will almost always do higher damage, but not by a stupidly high amount
if you compare cata and thrunda ripsaw, cata has a decent chance to do lower damage, but also a decent chance to do significantly higher damage
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In addition, comparing maximum possible damage throws off your data by a lot. a small difference can become giant with enough scaling. if you compare 10 and 5 (10 is mythic, 5 is legendary) then the mythic is 2x better than the legendary.

if your build multiplies each value by 5, then the mythic is 50 and the legenadary is 25. the mythic is still 2x better than the legend, but now the legend is 25 units worse, which seems like a lot.

by comparing the max damage and by using completely glass cannon builds, instead of multiplying by 5, you end up multiplying by 10, making the gap even bigger, further warping your data representation and misleading everyone
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only comparing the damage is bs.

with cataclysm, you have to deal with the -3.5k hp, forcing you to focus more on patching up your defense rather than increasing damage. with thrunda or hive dagger, you can safely increase your damage without worrying about having 6k hp. i don't care that you can do 20,000 more damage in spins, it doesn't matter if stepping on a rock kills you.
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you compared the wrong damages anyway boi

guardian=hive spear>apoc (in spell)

oh damn, hive spear is better than apoc in spell

if only apocalypse did 1.3x the melee dps, made you essentially invincible, and had the ability to pierce cybel's phase 5 defenses with little to no trouble

the gap between apoc and hive spear/ignition is bigger than the gap between cata and thrunda/hive dagger if you ask me

oh wow, alka = hive spear (in spell)
if only alkatraz had 4x the amount of melee dps as hive spear...
if only... dang, these warrior mythics suck

guardian does suck though

TL;DR
comparing max damage is a horrible idea
comparing alkatraz and apocalypse by spell is a horrible idea

 

I thank everyone for detailed disputes for this thread, but for now I don't think there is point for this thread to continue, I didn't want my rant to start a huge dispute. I have read through all comments and respected their opinions, but I believe the disparity of opinion is inevitable. Everyone has different standards and conditions of looking at a certain circumstance. Also the day I was posting this thread I was partly frustrated by how poison builds are to become the best in duel for no way to block them, (same goes for raw spell) and also how when you are trying to get a build in assassin it always discourages one as expensive mythics always stay above everything you make. Some may harshly disagree with me, while some may give me a genuine sympathy, but this was how I felt the issue in my viewpoint. Just as I try to respect another's opinion, I hope many others do the same.

 

if you don't want disputes I'd really advise against making rant threads.

 

Yes you are right for someone who is emotion sensitive rant comments can come quite harsh.

also.. 'stupid walls of texts' ..

I may be irrational, but this was too much, man.

 

stop leaking new items or the mods will ban u