Info Im Team Applications + Item Rebalance Changelog

Buffed items aren't placed in here because a strict buff won't cause people's items to pop-off and potentially be lost and break buiilds, whereas nerfs can cause that so nerfs are more documented. I promise we buff almost as many items as we nerf, if not more

 

1st. The stuff thats listed here are only skill point and req changes which can potentially break build. Hence what you see here is only nerfs/changes.
2nd. We have actually buffed A LOT of items... its just that people like to forget about them because its easier to remember nerfs that fucked up op builds and because its much easier to think of us as the evil guys that nerf everything without a good reason.. instead of trying to understand our reasons for changes ;D
Edit: heck i didnt see pokles msg ;-;

 

Ninja'd by almost 5 hours. :o

 

Idk if this is the correct place to put this, but maybe you should make a forum thread or something of the like to list all the changes you have done, including the buffs. If people could see the buffs you guys were doing, maybe that would help improve relations between the item team and community,

 

Wynndata already does this ._. It lists all changes that have been made. While i guess its true that not every forum user uses it... the ones that care a fuck ton about builds and balance all do (And those are the ones that complain the most i believe). I doubt it ll change much becauee people usually just react like "oh nice" to a buff and "WTF U LITTLE PIECE LF HECKS U KILLED MY BUILD REEEEEEEE GO FOCKING DIE IN A PIT" to a minor nerf. So the issue is that nerfs usually are percieved in a much greater intensity because people hate having things taken away from them. Maybe its like with jobs? If you suddenly get a pay raise you ll enjoy it a lot.. raise your living standard and get accustomed to this new amt of money. If it is then taken away from you its much more annoying and tougher to go back to your old salary.
So yeah i doubt we ll ever be able to have actually a very good and understanding relationship with the community because that would require people to readily give up on power and still be alright with it because they understand that they had too much power.
That said though... i guess i can bring it up to the rest of the team and see what they say ;D

 

That is what wynndata is for

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Sniped...

 

Yep I agree. its human psychology to react more strongly when something is taken away then when something is given to them. Personally, I mainly agree on the changes the Item team does (except for the hive change, but I outlined my thoughts on that already). However, I feel as though have a list of buffs/changes posted by selvut or the item team would still help. Some of the people I know don't even notice the changes until they run into someone complaining, and then get influenced by that person, or have there builds destroyed out of the blue, both of which gives players animosity against the item team. Having a list of buffs, I believe, would help show that the item team is not all about "alright, which build should we destroy next", which I unfortunetly feel is all to common.

 

saying the item team will never have a positive relationship because "blame other side here" is the most bullshit cop out for real change I've heard from the item "team", and i pray for selvut to (CENSORED) his (VEEEERY CENSORED) off daily for the douche way he has talked down to the community at times. With all the huge progress wynn team has made with listening to feedback in general lately I hope the item team in general is not something that falls in the "hated" section of wynn's history.

 

The reason why i find it very unlikely for us to ever have a great relationship with the community is because there are many different goals within the community + item team.
Some people want the game to be as balanced as possible... no matter what the price is. Some people want the game to be as balanced as possible with least possible amt of pain for the community. Some people just want their builds to stay the same with no tolerance for nerfs to their items because they feel like they build and their items are working out just fine for them and arent op. Some people can live with changes to items and keep calm about them but would prefer it if they didnt happen. Some people say that xyz items/builds are very unfavoured by the current state of items and want buffs asap. And finally some people say that the game is way too difficult already and that xyz mob and about any item should be buffed.
Thats a lot of contradicting opinions and not everyone can be happy no matter what happenes. And even if everyone here would strive for the exact same thing....for example perfect balance. What is perfect balance? This is also opinion based. So even if everyone on the entire server wanted perfect balance and also knew their shit about mobs, items, future plans etc etc etc we would STILL all hate each other ._. This can already be seen on a minature scale in the item team. We all want some kind of balance in the game. However we all have different visions for balance. We weigh upsides and downsides differently.. and as a result we often end up yelling at each other and genuinely start getting mad at other team members during some of our balance sessions.
So even if every single player on the entire server had the same goal people would still get mad over rebalances because they cant agree with them since they dont fit into their vision of balance.

I agree the way we (definitely including myself lol) talk to members of the community isnt the best way to go about it. However its both sides that are guilty of this. We often get insulted and hated for certain changes (which is to be expected). We also get quite a few rants in which the person never put any thought or reason. Often we get rants that have more insults about our incapability than actual content.
Its always both sides that make mistakes. One of the reasons for team members to talk down community members could for example be because before that they had to deal with 5 rants about how stupid the item team is and that we should just go away and never touch items again. So while i hope that the tone we choose when talking to the community at times improves.. i also hope the same for the community. We love feedback. We really do. However the feedback we desire is one which properly explains the problem in a reasonable tone. Explains why this current state in their opinion is an issue (we appreciate comparisons and examples as well). From personal experience... i think thus far out of all the feedback that wasnt just a list of items (from ppl like @Nyam (great job on the lists btw they helped a lot) ) but texts about items... about 95% of the feedback that i saw was just mindless rants instead of a properly structured complaint into which the person put a lot of thought.

I find this one interesting because it feels like you are of the opinion that other parts of the wynn CT listen more to the community than the Item team (please do correct me though if i am wrong about this and its just a missinterpretation). Its interesting because (no offense guys) but imo the item team BY FAR is the part of the ct that listenes the most to feedback. This is not because the Builders or GMs dont care... its simply because we are the only ones that can properly fuck you guys up. Our job is the only one (except for coding) that can actually make people mad enough to quit the game. We are aware of that and because of that we care a big deal about the feedback we get from the community. We never ignored any feedback we ever got. We went over all the feedback we got thus far. At times i get feedback where i actually think "mergh reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee i cant agree at all with this person"... however despite of this we still always at least list the feedback we got in voice chats.
Another thing id like to point out is...we all are/were like you guys..we are part of the community. We know the suffering through which everyone goes through when an item gets nerfed or gets req changes. We know what its like when a build breaks or what its like when your build just straight up doesnt work anymore. The reason we joined the item team is because we wanted to change something. We wanted to improve the balancing. We wanted to fix the fuck ups. We wanted to make items more useful. We wanted to bring the different views of the community into the balancing.
However... we also made and will continue to make mistakes. We at times fuck up balancing. We overnerf items or overbuff them and then gotta nerf them again. Do you think we enjoy that? ;D Do you think i ever got home from University and then thought to myself "hrmmmmmm okay lets see what the 20most used items atm are and then nerf them all to properly fuck up the community and laugh about their reactions"? Infact.... we are probably the ones who are the most mad about our own fuck ups. The reason for that is simple.. its not because we are going to have to change it. Its because you guys are the ones that suffer from our fuck ups.
I understand that parts of the community completely disagree and hate many of the changes we have made. I also understand that many of the changes are really annoying for build making.
However i hope that the community as a whole will also (at least try to) understand us and where we are comming from. I wont ask you to be best friends with me or agree with a lot of the changes that we make. If people want to hate us... feel free to ^^ however at least do it on a professional level. As an example... when it comes to item balancing @SilverMirror and I disagree like 99% of the time. When it comes to balancing he and i REALLY dont get along well. In the past this lead to A LOT of useless arguments and considerably worsened the mood. So what we did is.. we discussed this issue together and decided that while we dont have to agree with each other or love each other during balance we should at least do it on a professional level and leave those personal feelings away since they didnt have any room in item balance.
For the sake of the community,wynncraft and the game balance I ask you all to try being more professional about Items. Ranting may be nice for venting but its not helping. Its counterproductive. If you want to be taken serious then be serious. Thats how it works. Think about what you say. Quit the insulting. Be calm and explain yourself properly. Thats the first step that needs to be done.

 

Well it worked for me... I changed from hive slap igniton to sitis assassin with boreal chestplate.

 

I agree with this a lot lmao

 

alright, not sure where to post balance suggestions, so I'm gonna do it here (if this isn't the proper place, let me know)

Personally, I fell as though the mythic's are in a good place right now, except for a couple. But for now, I'm going to focus on my personal least favorite mythic, Alkatraz. Its not that its in a bad place balance why's, but I personally despise it because its so.... linear. you slap stuff with heavy earth damage, with someone poison thrown in to keep damage going. But that's really it. You flat out cannot run hybrid builds, due to 0 powder slots, and you cant really run spells, due to A. heavy negative % on all elements other than earth and B. just better options out there to run melee/spell or mainly spell builds.

tldr: Alkatraz is way to linear, as the only valid playstyle that I can come up with is melee poison earth.

I'm missing something huge aren't I.

 

You're missing the fact that it's literally the point of the item.

Think about it. Alcatraz is a maximum-security penitentiary. A prison, a place where you are LOCKED.

It's all about locking you into a singular strategy. I didn't make it, and at this point we really can't change the concept of it, so it's here to stay. If you want to use Alkatraz, expect to be locked into earth.

 

I personally feel as having no choice in playstyle variety for an item, especially a mythic is a poor decision, but I see where you are coming from.

 

That's not our fault. We didn't make Alkatraz and we cannot change it at this point.

 

It* is coming from. The item is built around that. The team has built many flexible items like PHorror for instance, but this is one of those very narrow minded item that has more or less only one use. Every game has them and many people like them. This seems more like your opinion about an item and less about its balance. It could be argued that Alkatraz OP or too weak, but you're just talking about the item. That's not really a "balance" suggestion. More of a general suggestion to completely change the item.

 

Which we can't do.

 

It's not a cop-out. The team has to balance the game, and keep the community happy. Otherwise people start quiting because of necessary changes that players simply disagree with, like multi-hive abuse. Also this \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Opinions in the community on what is balanced and not vary widely. Not only does each item need to be assessed individually, but those items then need to be compared with others in their own level, and then with the balance curve. It's more complicated than "oh lets just change this" because not everyone within the team agrees, not everyone within the community agrees, and no one wants to upset the core of the community by making sweeping changes to lots of items, or changes to pivotal items like master hive, the only difference being that *likely* everyone on the item team agreed that master hive items needed to be one or none, not 1 or more. That simple. When the team is able to come to a concensus, then changes happen. Similar to the way government works, but with people talking about items in a video game lol.

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speaking of talking to the community, when are we going to stop using the base values again?

 

@12DaBob27
@NicBOMB

My initial post failed to consider the weight/stress of the job the item team has and was thus inconsiderate and frustration fueled. I apologize. Do you guys feel as though there is a time crunch or a pressure to assess item balance and make changes at the rate at which you are changing items? From what I'm hearing and reading from the discussions thus far, the rate at which a lot of these changes are occurring is a central issue to people quitting wynn or feeling loss of interest as the game will no longer be as fun now. Its also making the trade market a source for rage quitting with making what is one day a legitimate and fair deal, a massive price scam (purely by the change of items value changing).

it would be nice to hear reasoning for changes in some items. like snail armor, spiked in req and lost so many stats. with such extreme changes why not just remove it at this point?

 

I agree that things are moving very fast paced atm and i personally also think that soon(TM) we should probably take a step back and wait and see. However for now the reason why we can make so many changes so quickly is because we have been ready for this for... well basically forever ;D we can finally address all the issues we have with items and there are so many things that need to get fixed and that we want to fix that we cant just just yet (sorry). Imo its better to finaly fix all the issues than slooooowly go through them and have people get more accustomed to them.
As for trade market changes.. yeah we are aware of it.. hence the reason why we REALLY dislike touching mythics (might seem a bit unbelievable considering the amt of rebalances but trust me we are a LOT more reluctant to change mythics than anything else)