Media Community Thoughts About Items

yknow
chaos

 

hmm
i was experimenting with hive weapon builds, particularly the dagger in an attempt to make a thunder build, and i came across this issue.
there arent really many good endgame thunder armors, outside of the hive items.

ossuary: decent damage, pretty low hp. granted, it is somewhat of a lower level, but still.
discharge: butchers earth defense (which is nearly impossible to compensate for) for 45% thunder damage, less than cinderchain which is much less harsh on defenses.
golden scarab: low hp, decent damage
medeis: no
slayer: its mythic
static-charged leggings: horribly glassy
shaggy boots: horribly glassy
breakdown: difficult requirements, glassy
leictreach makani: insanely glassy, overall not worth it. reqs are very high, and the attack tier has little to no use due to fhe glassiness
cumulonimbus: horribly glassy, forces user away from strength and defense.
brainwash: damage comparable to dark channeler, decent hp. however, the -intel combined with the -300 water def makes it extremely difficult to cancel out the water defense. additionally, for 0 intel burst damage, 4/4s mr is hardly enough to allow burst damage.

on the other hand, there are a couple of nice ones. let me give some examples of them.

cinderchain: great damage, decent bulkiness. isnt too difficult to compensate for the harmed defenses.
scorpio: decent thunder damage, nice hp, good poison. overall well rounded.
dark channeler: massive damage, but has glassiness and -def to make up for it. the thing that separates this from others, such as static charged leggings and discharge is that its defenses are at least able to be negated.
trench scourer: somewhat glassy, but has good defenses. while the damage isnt the best, the 4/4 mana steal is a great asset to any build.

anyway, my point here is that good, non gimmicky options for thunder at endgame are severely limited outside of master hive. solving this by adding more or rebalancing, im not sure, but i hope you get my point

 

notice a pattern? thunder is all about being a glass cannon. if you want to be less glass go for earth instead

 

the other problem is that a lot of the things that are super glassy don't exactly have the best damage either, or the damage just doesn't make up for the defenses
memento: https://wynndata.tk/s/ATwq4O
shaggy boots: https://wynndata.tk/s/rbS6GR
i'm not willing to lose more than 1k hp to do 110 more damage on a spin attack.
dark channeler: https://wynndata.tk/s/2ZCpMb
brainwash: https://wynndata.tk/s/rJ7TgV
in this case, i don't want to lose out the ability to have intel, just so i can have a little bit more hp and marginally better damage. not only that, you can't even compensate for the -def on brainwash, while you can on dark channeler.

yes, i understand that thunder is for glass cannon builds, but the damage most of the armor has just doesn't compensate for the glassiness of the armor pieces.

 

I think you mean mana steal....4/4 mana regen would be extremely op

I agree that they’re not enough Thunder items to use, as many thunder builds use the same items, such as the ones you mentioned, and a lot of thunder builds use water items as well, such as third eye and memetoes, because they’re simply better than the options we have currently.

 

oof yes
thanks for pointing that out to me

 

In my opinion, there are two main problems with thunder. First off, Thunder doesn't really give SUSTAINABLE damage. While it's extremely good at boosting damage, much of its mana recovery relies on mana steal, to the point where the items often negate mana regen or intelligence, or require high intelligence, or both (Trench Scourer, Liektriech Makani, Brainwash, Sine). Because of this, the damage they deal over time tends to fall short compared to water-air or water-earth builds, especially since the higher attack speeds on these items make mana steal more inconsistent.

The second problem with thunder is that the damage boosts they give usually don't actually make up for the lack of defense. For example, Liektriech Makani, while giving good damage, give little to no health. This makes it much easier for user of it to be one shot or two shot by bosses, which effectively makes them non-starters. Using them in closed arenas such as the Matrojan Idol or Orange Cybel, where the bosses or their minions have aoe, auto locking spells (flamethrower, pull, meteor, charge), is effectively a death sentence.

Both of these problems, on their own, are relatively easy to remedy. The problem is that it's near impossible to fix both problems at once with the current way Thunder is set up. The best thunder items usually have extremely high requirements, so much of the time it's difficult to invest in more than two elements at a time without skill-point boosting items. If you want more consistent damage, you need to invest in water. Because of this, you end up extremely glassy, to the point where it's extremely difficult for you to survive a boss encounter. If you want more defense, you need to invest in fire or air. Because of this, the damage you deal ends up being too inconsistent, and you won't deal as much damage as other players.

Both of these problems are kind of unique to thunder. Earth builds tend to have enough natural tankiness to survive a few hits, and can be combined with Water without too much of a penalty to their defense. And combining earth with air gives you extremely good walk speed and melee damage, with items like Aries, Horizon and Dondasch giving you good boosts in melee damage and walk speed, giving you extremely good survivability and decent enough damage; and much more importantly, the skill requirements aren't insanely restrictive on earth items (a notable exception being dune storm, which...honestly is kind of weak and not really worth using).

 

like item that wont let you deal elemental damage for a tiny tiny bit of melee and spell and mana

 

That glassy nature only serves to alienate thunder items with -earth defense, especially since Paradox and Scorpio are pretty much the only thunder items with decent earth defense at cheapish costs.

I disagree.

 

No offense to anyone who has made items, but I think item stats need a complete redo. This is due to the significant imbalances between items that are of the same tier, such as the difference between Cataclysm and Nirvana. Another issue is that many mythic substitutes are simply not viable due to the significant differences in stats between many mythics and other weapons. Ever tried to replicate a weapon with 1000-1800 fire damage? Closest you get is with Ignition which gets ~400-520. Many items have no substitutes, which leads to a lot of repeating in builds. Aquarius is the chestplate for mana builds, and that is that. I understand that this would take some time, but it really needs to be done to keep wynn alive.

 

so how are they suppose to completely redo items

 

rebalance. And I'm not to sure. If I knew how to fix the problem, I'd tell you.

 

maybe you aren't using nirvana to it's potential.

an average player will never need to get a mythic to progress in wynncraft. from their rarity and price, they should be better than a random weapon of the same level range.

There are plenty. Maybe you're talking about a meta, which will eventually change.

It's a pretty niche category. Making more mana chestplates, it would be difficult to keep them unique

 

You're not taking into account the differences in attack speed for damage at all.

Aquarius has replacements - Ornamental Plate and Stillwater Blue. Stillwater and Ornamental can also be better than Aquarius in some cases, though worse in others.

 

+5 spring points if you read this with his voice

 

In a game with a lot of items, this is pretty much unavoidable, unfortunately.

Grim > Wall Breaker, Apoc > Ignition, Spring > Torrential Tide; it's not reasonable to have legendaries competing with mythics.

Just curious as to which item this is(think you're referring to one of the fire mythics). Also, it might be possible to get decent damage on a Flameshot Hilt or Ignition(with a build) although I'm so bad at making builds. Also, I'm not sure whether you're referring to damage per second or damage per hit.

I see your Aquarius argument. But Aquarius is really glassy and has a high Intelligence requirement, so you have the 7 more mana regen and get shredded by any thunder mob, or you use Hive Chestplate and not be. Or you can go dual-element(Water-Air or Water-Earth)and branch out differently(but if you just want as much mana as you can possibly get, I have nothing). But this is the only case I can think of. Maybe instead of "substitutes" you meant "competitors", but I'm trying to avoid a flamewar here.

With the almost 2.5 thousand items in the game, unless you're targeting one stat, this is taking a lot of effort(despite the problems with attack speed tiers, but that's its own issue).

So I see what point you are trying to make, but your back-up points are a tad weak here; I'm just a generic Wynncraft player though and not the kind of guy people listen to.

 

________________________________

grandmother

 

congrats on passing trial

 

Thank you :)

 

Cheers mate!