In the News (spoilers) Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion.

Way too much plot convenience. Like, first Rey, this nobody, is suddenly a top tier force user, and now suddenly a fookin slave kid gets the force at the end of this movie. And don't get me started on fucking force flying Leia. What the actual fuck. What does that accomplish Disney? Am I meant to be in awe of your indesciveness whether or not Leia should die? Giving characters these get out of jail free cards just ruins any kind of immersion.

There's barely any noticeable conflict in Rey and she does fookin 0 training. Like cmon, Anakin wasn't just "boom im a big money sith man", there was actual development and conflict, not just fucking "oooh I dont know who my parents are and I want to know all of a sudden" as with Rey. Even just her character is terribly boring, I'd sooner watch a character as pathetic as Shinji from evangelion try to fight the empire rather than "oh guess Ill fight the empire bcuz they bad" Rey.

Tbh the empire did nothing wrong, go Kylo

But hey, it was worth it for those pretty ice crystal wolves, uwu

 

Marginally

 

god joined

 

I felt that Snoke’s personality didn’t really fit in the Sith/follower of the dark side ( pretty sure he calls Kylo Ren a part of the Ren order in The Force Awakens ) personality. His trust in Kylo Ren returns as quickly as it was lost, Darth Sidious, who he’s mainly based on, would’ve disposed of both Kylo Ren and General Hux for a long time ago. Snoke’s also using very little force. Apart from his mind manipulation and the basic force pull/push the only force he uses is 0,5 seconds of force lightning on Kylo Ren. His death is very strange and unexpected. He gets tricked very easily and doesn’t seem to know that the lightsaber is moving. He is also in huge need of backstory, how did he learn the force, all (known) Siths die at the end of Return of the Jedi and he could’ve impossibly learnt the powers of the Dark Side alone. Another question is why does he lead the First Order?
I have a feeling we’ll learn more about him in episode IX and that some of the older ( Darth Plaugiesis/Sidious old ) Siths will be integrated in it.

 

Yes BoredArchon Lendofoy is correct hyperspace is the star wars universe however it is just in light speed. However I always wonder how the cruiser could have lightspeed jumped through all of the ships at once as they where rather far apart and it is physically impossible to jump a ship side wars so did Admiral Holdo do a space drift to cut through all of them or something?

 

The mentor always dies... sadly

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Disney is probably going to release a new movie about him next year, like Rogue One.

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Could Snoke have been a ghost when Kylo and Rey were there? He probable wanted Kylo to kill his ghost so Rey would be convinced he died, then he could launch a huge attack on the rebellion without them even knowing. And since he manipulated himself, he probably is very strong with the force, and with that force, he could....... do bad.

 

Original trilogy Obi Wan and Palpatine didn't

 

New Theory:
Remember Darth Plagueis? The one that Darth Sidious talked about to Anakin before he was Darth Vader. Well, he says that Plagueis could keep his loved ones alive. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis
And did you see Darth Vader's face when his mask went off?
goo.gl/Wt1H2h

And look at Snoke's face
goo.gl/vCC9Mj

On the picture of Darth Vader, it seems like his wounds are in the (almost) same spot as Snoke's largest wounds...

You might say, Vader was burned!!! This is a supporting fact. The skin obviously burns quickest, and that's why Snoke's face is so damaged.

Oh, and Plagueis is probably still alive, because he can keep others alive, why can't he keep himself alive.
So my theory is that Snoke is just Darth Vader's body possessed by Darth Plagueis.

 

ok
uh
lets start with the finn and rose plotline
it's stupid
it's, like 40 minutes of wasted screentime that leads to two (minor) things happening: phasma dies, there's a force-sensitive kid.
woo.
The character of Rose is useless, too, like they could've gotten some established character to keep Finn from running, like, say, BB8 who isn't tied up in anything at that point in the story (unlike Poe). That also would've made Finn's decision NOT to run away a lot better as it would seem like he's actually invested in his friends rather than some fat asian chick who we don't even know.

• On the topic of Rose's sister: We're supposed to care about her. But why? It's a war. People die. too bad so sad. So why should I care?
• On the topic of the bombships: They're stupid, how tf are they supposed to DROP bombs in SPACE. Gravity wouldn't have pulled the bombs in towards the dreadnaught. They would have just floated. In space. Unless they were pushed down by some mechanism, which makes sense (sorta, but why not make them, like, rocket powered? Then you can control them. That seems so much more efficient and effective).
• Also the rebel 'fleet' losing all their ships (I mean you can't really call it a fleet if you have one ship, right?), like, they should've kept going in the same direction because of Newton's 1st law (of motion - I assume physics is the same in the star wars universe [at least in space]). And since they run out of fuel in literally the middle of nowhere, there wouldn't be any gravity to affect their trajectory - oh wait there's the 'secret asspull planet,' amirite? So the planet's gravity should've pulled it towards it (the planet).
• Also if we're supposed to believe that life (and breathable air) exists on this planet, that would mean it's in the so-called 'goldilocks zone' where life can exist. Why can't we see the star that it (the planet) belongs to? Like, this may have just been me not noticing things, but... where's the planet's star? How can it EXIST without a star (or two)??
• Why do Finn and Rose love each other at the end? Like, Rose has kinda just.. been a jerk to Finn, and now they're in love? ???

The mutiny plot is STUPID. If purple hair lady had just EXPLAINED the plan to an 'impulsive flyboy' then everything would have turned out fine. But noo you have to go and have a mutiny because some purple hair lady doesn't think it's right to explain a plan to escape to one of her officers. wtf? how is anything supposed to get done if you run anything like THAT? How do you think 'NOT TELLING THE PEOPLE WHO NEED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WHAT THE PLAN IS' IS A GOOD IDEA?????

How'd the stoned codebreaker know that there was a fleet of 30 (or so) rebel transports heading towards the planet?? How'd he even get the time to make a deal with the First Order??

Why is Rey still a Mary Sue?
Ok actually she's not a total mary sue because the deal with her parents actually becomes an actual hangup for her (sorta) which is good, but now that I feel like it's resolved, uh, does Rey have flaws?
ok actually she does, like (imo) being impulsive and quick to trust.
It's actually pretty funny when rey 'reaches out' and luke slaps her with a stick
Why'd Rey get drawn to the uh, dark pit thing in the first place? Like, she just is like
"oh yea I'm heading towards a pit"
luke: "fuck, shit, uh STOP"
Luke says that the pit thing reached out to her and like made promises and stuff (you know what I mean). Wouldn't it be cooler if this (seemingly big - that's a missed opportunity, i'm going to talk about it later) was actually shown to us? Like, "Reyyy your parents... I know..." and like we'd progress from there. That would've been cool! instead the writers forgot about 'show, don't tell' (which I'm sure is like the most vague piece of writing advice you'll ever get).

The crystal foxes are pretty cool
I think we can all agree on that

Snoke is super cool. First, I like his character design, how it appeared in the first movie (the force awakens). Now it just looks like he's wearing a bathrobe. Andy Serkis did a really good job of portraying Snoke and I loved every minute he was onscreen.
Except for that giant head hologram thing.
That was
a bit strange.
Also the way he dies is stupid. Snoke is insanely powerful with the force. He can affect things (with the force) through a HOLOGRAM. He tosses Rey around like a rag doll and it's actually fun to watch how much more powerful he is than any other character we see onscreen (except maybe Luke but we don't see him manipulating things with the force from long-range. The only thing we see him do is make an illusion [albeit from millions of miles away]). So he dies... because his eyes are closed. He's still holding Rey up in the air. So how tf does he not feel the presence of the force (manipulated by kylo ren) like literally right next to him?? He's super attuned to the force and he. Does. Not. Notice. This. wtf, he totally should have noticed it and completely shut it down. But noo, he died not because it made sense in context, because the plot requires Snoke to die. We don't even see how he turns Kylo Ren to the dark side. We don't see why he's super powerful. That would've been awesome! But no, he just has to die.

Ok so y'know purple hair lady's sacrifice at the end? That's also stupid.
Let's start with hyperspace. As far as I know, going into hyperspace basically forces the ship in question into a different dimension (effectively). The ship basically becomes incorporeal or else it'd have to be dodging everything in space to get to its destination - this includes asteroids and other, smaller space rocks. What if you have to cross an asteroid belt and your ship isn't incorporeal? And it's big! How are you going to do that?
Two: If I remember correctly (and I'm pretty sure I do), Finn and Rose contact the rebellion while. In. Hyperspace. This shouldn't happen. This isn't a thing. You cannot contact other ships (via like, radio or something, whatever they use) while in hyperspace. Doesn't happen. There have been whole story beats involving the fact that YOU CAN'T CONTACT PEOPLE WHILE IN HYPERSPACE (and if the protagonists go out of hyperspace then they'll get caught by the bad guys [and presumably] killed). Ok, so this is canon in legends, apparently, so not actually canon in the current universe. I'm kind of averse to the thought that Disney retconned a lot of the extended universe. They kept some things, for sure, but I think it was a bad move to retcon much of it.
(also as a note you can force your ship out of hyperspace by 'entering' a planet's (or star's) gravity (im guessing it's at a certain point) and your ship gets torn out of hyperspace. That's fine, though, because if it acted on asteroids everyone would be fucked. Space is mostly empty, though. You can also rig your ship to do certain things if you get out of hyperspace, like, blow up (although only people like smugglers or something would use this).
How does purple hair lady jump to hyperspace (which is a different dimension, effectively) and then become corporeal? Doesn't make sense.

The way Luke dies is so anticlimactic. One second he's mocking Kylo Ren (which is a 'yay' moment) ten seconds later he's dead. Woo. No.. dramatic tension.. nothing sad... nothing to indicate he's going to die.. he just up and does it, like wtf. It's a very 'wait what' moment (or, 'wait, what, oh, he's dead, well rip, I guess I'm sad but if only the movie treated it like it was sad and momentous because this is a big fucking deal).

the milk dinos on Luke's island are wierd
the people who tend the huts on his island remind me of the pilgrims from dark souls 3
luke says to rey that he'll teach her "3 lessons, at dawn" but no, just one. and like, one-half of one.

Rey's parents being nobodies is such a missed opportunity. If her parents were special in some way that might explain why a) she's so good at the force (in comparison to most other people in the movie - also the force isn't like, 'oh woo now I can move stuff even though I have no prior training' it's a thing that you cannot bend to your will unless you've been trained and you've meditated and stuff [you might be able to feel it but that's a big might]- even the prequels get this right).

<will type more tomorrow>

 

The dreadnaught has simulated gravity that most likely extends above it. Simulated gravity is proven to exist on the Death Star since the hangars are facing the same direction on the whole spacestation but it’s large size would’ve caused gravity to be distorted in those not near the equator.
The ship is also large enough to have small gravity.

Darth Vader was able to use force choke just by being able to see his victims.

He kept himself alive but Darth Sidious killed him because he had no more to learn (apart from the life thing that Plaguesis didn’t want to tell and that Sidious sought after his whole life).
But your idea isn’t bad as nothing says that siths can’t become force ghosts and it’s proven through Yoda in this movie that they can use force powers too. Although the Vader part is probably just that they wanted somebody that people liked to base him of. Kylo Ren looks very similiar to Darth Revan from the game ”Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic”.

On the topic of Yoda, why did he summon lightning? Force lightning (along with force choke) is the trademark ability of the dark side. It seems a bit weird one of the greatest Jedis of all time uses a power similiar to a Sith one.

 

A ghost that can physically touch people and use the force, and appear as if it's been cut in half? A bit of a stretch. If that were the case, why does he appear again to Hux later? Face it, Snoke is dead. He was never made out to be tremendously important in the first place, he was just mysterious, which sparked curiosity. Remember that the Emperor was never a very important character in the OT. He's sort of shoved in there as someone more evil than Darth Vader. Just as Palpatine was just part of Vader's arc, I believe Snoke was just part of Kylo's arc.

BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THAT STORY! It's about the irony of being able to save others but not himself. And if anyone would know Plagueis was still alive it would be the guy who supposedly killed him and knew him for years. You know, the one who's telling the story? We know that force-sensitives can sense the deaths of people they know.

Wasn't Darth Vader's body destroyed when the Second Death Star blew up? How would it have survived?

Because there's no expectation in any military that officers tell their inferiors their plans? And she already has reason to dislike him, given that he took unauthorised actions in the opening that got all her bombers blown up. Poe is at fault here, not Holdo.

It's been hinted that what Kylo said isn't entirely true. Also, Luke uses the force to move things, twice (the torpedoes in A New Hope and his lightsaber at the start of Empire, before he's had any kind of formal training).

It's been officially stated that the bombs are magnetically propelled out of the ship. And the reason they're not rocket powered is presumably so you can have more of them. Rockets and rocket fuel takes space. Those are designed for engagements against larger, slower ships, so controlling them shouldn't be necessary.

Han Solo states in A New Hope that you can crash into things while in hyperspace. There's also that part of the hyperspace tracking device on the Supremacy is constantly in hyperspace. Perhaps this is how it was able to do that? And you can crash into asteroids. This means you have to go round them, and it's why precise calculations and hyperspace lanes are needed. If it was just avoiding large objects, space is so huge it would hardly matter.

You could say the same for the Emperor in Return of the Jedi. I think it was because he was too cocky and wasn't paying attention to Kylo's thoughts. I think it's a very good echo of what the end of the OT and how it could have gone differently.

lets start with the luke on bespin plotline.
it's stupid
it's, like [x] minutes of wasted screentime that leads to two (minor) things happening: luke gets his hand cut off and learns that vader is his father.

 

I figure I'll stick away from most of the same repeated back and forth arguments I see everywhere else on the internet and just talk about one moment that I really loved from the film (which will inevitably have to touch on some of the same repeated back and forth arguments I see everywhere else on the internet):

I say "moment" but I basically mean everything in the throne room in the... I guess third act? It's kind of a four act film. Anyways, Snoke's throne room is cool, his gold robes making him look egotistical which really plays into his overconfidence, I take this as some slight visual foreshadowing. Anyways, so we've basically got a Return of the Jedi rehash, that as much I hate how these sequels are just retreads of the original trilogy, I'll forgive this one for daring to pull it in the second movie. Snoke's overconfidence in himself and his apprentice means he can't realize that Kylo's "true enemy" might not be Rey. My mind was just all over the place when Snoke died. Is he gonna Sith-force ghost somehow? Is he gonna come back to life? What does this mean if there's still a ninth episode coming? And all of that confusion still goes on in the background of my mind as the amazing fight scene takes place. So many cool combo moves being done here, like lightsaber-skewering that one dude's head, and Rey letting go of her lightsaber to fake that one guy out. All really good stuff, and I love how Kylo's doing most of the work as he has the most experience. When the dust settles, I'm left wondering: What the heck is going on here? Who's even the bad guy now? Why did Return of the Jedi happen in the second movie? The only bad guy left is Hux!

Snoke dying I can forgive. Beyond his origin, was he really that interesting of a villain? Everything about him was just Emperor 2.0. Once we figured out his origin that'd be it, his role in the story would be almost identical to the Emperor. Combine that with the villain-teased-for-redemption and they were basically setting themselves up for the last film being Return of the Jedi all over again. Which is why I'm glad that Rian just kinda went "Well, you can't copy Return of the Jedi in the third film if I do it in the second one!" and now Snoke's dead already. You know, I did want to find out that he was like, Plagueis or something, but I think this overall was the right move to make, so we can really start to see something original in Episode 9. Anyways, moving on.

After the amazing fight scene, we get one of my favorite surprises: Kylo takes charge of the First Order, becoming a corruption of the "moving on" theme of this film. He wants to destroy everything of his past to build a new future. It's not terribly complex but it's still a new angle compared to your standard lack of motivation. And I love how with all the teasing that Kylo might be redeemed, even just 5 minutes before, instead we find out that he's made his choice and that he's staying on the dark side. I really hope JJ doesn't backpedal on that in the next film. From there, the emotional rollercoaster continues as my heart sinks when Kylo pulls a "join me and we can rule the galaxy" and my heart sinks. I prepared myself for "Rey you're actually the daughter of Jar Jar" or something, but then they pulled the one thing I never thought they'd dare to do: The anti-reveal. There was no mystery after all. And this got me excited again. (And keep in mind, Rey's the first one to say that her parents were nobodies, not Kylo, so it's not a lie)

Yeah sure, Force Awakens set up this massive hype train for who Rey's parents were but it was honestly pretty stupid looking back on it. Why does our protagonist need to ride on the shoulders of another famous Jedi/Sith? Why can't they come into their own and just be their own hero? Which is why I really love what they did here, with the film in general. Rey tries to search for the answers to who her parents are, she hopes that if she finds out she can feel important, like she has some destiny laid out for her. It's also why she wanted to go to Luke, she was hoping that he being the great Jedi Master that he could tell her that she was meant to be the greatest Jedi of all time or something. She effectively says this to his face when she tells him "I need someone to show me my place in all this". It's also why she's tempted by the dark side briefly, why she goes into the dark cave. And admittedly, she did kinda turn away from the dark a tad too quickly but I don't think we needed the "will the protagonist go dark side?" again like in Return of the Jedi.

Anyways, point is, the entire point of her arc and searching for answers is that in the end, it was pointless, her destiny can't just be handed to her on a silver platter, she needs to make her own destiny, and come into her own. And I really like that angle, because before this film she really just did feel like "Luke but it's a girl this time" so I'm glad they're doing something just a tad different, and I hope they'll build upon that and give Rey some form of arc and character development because she's been missing a lot of that so far. I get that there isn't much of an explanation for her being ridiculously good at the force, but they did touch on the Force trying to "even the scales" with Kylo being her counterpart so that's a good enough explanation for me.

All in all, I think all of the interactions between Rey, Kylo, and Snoke, glossed-over mysteries and all, were all the perfect moves going forwards in the trilogy, and I'm really excited for what they do next, because we have no idea what they'll do next.

okay now that I'm done talking about all of the subtleties of storytelling i'm gonna go back to looking at memes

 

He trained with Obi-Wan on the Falcon before both events. He's had training. If formal training is the type found in the Republic before the Empire, then no one could get formal training.

But those aren't minor.
This is the crux of Luke's character arc (as I see it). Losing his hand and learning that his father is Vader makes him similar to Vader and gives him a connection someone who he hates. Now that the connection is established the audience and the characters in-universe can wonder if Luke is going to become like Vader (although having Luke become evil isn't what the story ends up doing. It's predictable how it'll end - that's the kind of story it is, but that's not what I'm going to talk about. The interaction between the two characters is interesting.). This moment (or scene, really) is important for both the audience and the characters. It's really major, and now Luke has to get over his newfound hangups: no hand and that Vader is his father.

Let's start with Phasma. There's a whole book written about her and.. I don't know, I've never read it. But in the movies she doesn't do a lot - she's a minor character.
In The Force Awakens, she helps Kylo Ren find the location of a person who has information on where Luke is and this person is also being pursued by Poe. Poe gets the information and leaves the planet along with Finn, who mutinies because he realizes that the First Order is kinda shit. Then they crash on Jakku and the story goes forwards from there.
Later, the main characters go to Maz for help and they get attacked by the First Order, presumably led by Phasma (the rebels also come, but that's not important here), although Kylo Ren is also there. It's debatable whether he is leading the attack, although in the recent movie he acts as a commander, although that might be because Snoke is dead and Kylo Ren seems to see Hux as incompetent, or maybe he just really wanted to destroy the Rebels.

Anyway, the point is, Phasma doesn't do a lot, and I think it (actually) would've been cooler if she were still alive and the members of the First Order having to deal with having a temperamental kid (Kylo Ren) as supreme leader (as he implies but doesn't outright say that he is now supreme leader, but Hux acknowledges him being the new supreme leader).
Phasma isn't all that interesting, either (in the movies. If something happens in the books that makes her character more interesting, that's great, but I shouldn't have to read supplementary material in order to care about a character). Her personality boils down to "disciplinarian, sticks to the rules, cares about protocol."

I also can't think of Finn's personality. I literally cannot tell what it is, and while I might just be imperceptive, I can find personalities of many other people. I don't think the writing in the new movies is bad (ok, sometimes it is, but that can be said of anything, really). SO:
Rey: headstrong and (mostly) confident that she's making the right choices. She cares about other people, although that can be said about the other 'good guys' in the story.
Holdo: A bit uppity, but (I feel like I'm going to be saying this a lot) confident in her ways and has a good heart. She cares about order and protocol but it's not the most important thing.
Poe: He wants to do the best for the things he cares about (like the rebellion) and is (again) confident in his ways (and kinda impulsive) and has a good heart.

Where?

I disagree. I think that, while he was being cocky, he still should've noticed what Kylo was doing. I don't think a character this strong with the force could not have noticed this.

But she knows that Poe is impulsive and headstrong. It was obvious that he was going to do something (or maybe it was just obvious to the audience). And, so, to keep him from doing rash things she should've at least told him that she had a plan, instead of Poe thinking that she's just floundering around, burning fuel and dooming the rebellion. Even if she had said something like 'the plan is on a need-to-know basis. You don't need to know it," then I doubt Poe would've mutinied.
She also knows that Poe isn't one to take orders well (and he's.. impulsive and headstrong), so the fact that she's vice-admiral isn't enough for Poe to just suck it up and trust her.

Yes, but it's large and probably really expensive. Not everyone can afford it. Also the story beats I mentioned all happened in the Republic's war against the Seperatists. It's possible such technology didn't exist then.

Yes, but Rey says it first. She's the one who acknowledges that her parents are nobodies.

 

Title is misleading

 

Oi! What you saying about the prequels? They were the best films! What? Memes!

But yeah, there were... issues with certain things. I don't think that whole hyperspace thing at the end should be possible, otherwise couldn't they have just got some suicidal X wing pilot to fly into the Death Star at hyper speed? Someone was mentioning the lasers being launched upwards slightly and then arcing back down, I think we can just accept that the posits in the Star Wars universe are a bit different to ours lol, I mean there are swords made of light, ships can go faster than the speed of light, and there's some mystical Force which binds together all living things.


BEN SWOLO THO

 

SO GLAD someone else saw that.

 

*MatPat is in his recording closet with a tack board, trying to figure out who are Rey’s parents. A Diet Coke is in his hand*

 

What is this.