Amadel 2nd Boss Room Grinding

Thanks for that explanation

 

I've asked Pretzule, there is no official decision on this as of now. Most mods agree that it's allowed, however Selvut hates it.
It's better not to do it, however.

EDIT: just to clarify, it is allowed right now, but it's better to stay out of it (in my opinion): it can still cause problems/trouble. Wait for an official mod answer.

 

I said that not as a mod, but as a GM. While I detest the fact that it is allowed, it is allowed, but I don't want people doing this. I so badly want to go off on a rant about this, but I won't.

Unless you ask.

 

Rant!
Rant!
Rant!
Rant!

 

XP Nerf incoming?

 

I'd like to hear your opinions. All I know is that you despise the concept of AFK grinding, but it's still a legitimate (kinda?) way of grinding for items.

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You don't grind there for XP, you grind there for loot since the mobs have horrifying earth defense and 600 health.

 

It seems to be a simple case of "Mobs being grindable when they're not supposed to be grindable". I can already see people getting salty when it gets nerfed and saying it was "unneeded".

Playing the game by not playing the game isn't really legitimate.

 

It does need a nerf, I won't debate that but the point is it's not bannable and it's a good spot to grind in, no matter which way you choose. If it's nerfed (which I'd agree with) I'd prefer to have it still be a good grinding spot in general, just remove the ability to afk grind it.

Fair enough, but if there's a method to make something more efficient most people would probably use it. Especially if it's a safe method.

 

I had the exact same problem with EXP grinding and I was one of the most avid people for getting it nerfed finally by Salted, and then I see people doing the exact same thing. I know for a fact that people did end up getting banned over the AFK grinding scenario, so why should AFK farming be any different?

Onto my logic in this situation, let me preface this by saying this isn’t a resource-gathering game or an idle game like Cookie Clicker or mobile games, which are essentially based around AFK grinding. In those cases, I simply find the games uninteresting. Here, however, there is an actual game to play. There is content to explore. There are enemies to test yourself against, things to find and work towards finding, players to interact with, an entire world which is continually getting even more added to it. And what do I see players doing? Wasting their time, standing still, in the middle of a BOSS ROOM no-less, getting rewarded for inaction.

Let me put this as tactfully as I can.

What right should you have to play the game if you don’t even want to bother participating in it?

There is no reward for getting the best gear, except to make a mockery of the challenges we put forth by abusing glitches and mechanics we are trying our hardest to balance and fix, and then complain “Oh, the game is too easy” while at the same time going back and whining and screaming “Oh my god this game is too hard! GMs, please nerf!!” at the stages where you DON’T have access to those methods. It’s one or the other, not both. Which is it? I’m trying to figure out so I can rebalance it. Is it the mechanics? Did I make the mobs too hard? Have I fucked up a massive portion of the game’s balancing by mistake? How can I fix this? CAN I fix this? What will the community think? Will they crucify us for it? Will they enjoy it? Will they swear off the game?

Having control of one of the game’s most core pieces of balancing is not something I can take lightly, and believe me I don’t. It’s one of the things I’m honestly the most strict about in the team, and I often have ended up running into issues where people have made mobs that were not well-balanced and changing them, and then having those people turn around and complain at me for doing their job for them, since they simply weren’t finished yet, and I was just jumping to conclusions, so I take the balance seriously. When people are screaming out two totally different opinions, I can’t tell who is correct, as everyone has a different opinion about it. For every “Nerf XYZ” thread I’ve seen, there’s been a “Buff ABC” thread, both with legitimate reasons why we should and shouldn’t. I have no idea which to do, and I am constantly second-guessing myself as to whether what I do is a good change. I’ve literally spent nights filling up papers on even just a slight item nerf and why I should or shouldn’t do it. Unlike how some people think and joke about, I don’t just toss some dice and make a change.

Regardless of this aspect, the fact remains that there’s no reward for getting the “best” gear except in obtaining it yourself really, and I’m often trying to make sure that gear is worth grinding for. It’s one of the reasons I want to buff Pandemonium even though Salted won’t let me. And the only real “goal” of the game so far is to hit Lv 100, or 101 if you’re so inclined. We need to make that rewarding, and at the moment it’s a bit lackluster, but we’re working on that. We’re also working on various other pieces of content to make getting that lofty level goal a worthwhile endeavour. Legendary Island, boss altars, all sorts of things. Eventually storylines and more quests and various content of that ilk along with the side content that I’m mostly working on.

And then, you stand in a room all day to completely cheat that system and get the thing you want, taking all the challenge and reward out of it. I even tried to prevent this from happening, but due to another failure of the mechanics, it doesn’t work. Those mobs have a lootMultiplier of 0, meaning they’re never supposed to drop items. And yet. And fucking yet. People complain the market is oversaturated, it’s this kind of convoluted bullshit that I think is why. You’re turning the very concept and gimmick of a boss into a means to harmlessly farm for items and line your pockets, without even needing to be present. You’re turning something we work so hard to balance and make interesting, all the work the GMs put in, and stabbing us in the head with it, with a rude message written on the handle.

If you want to get the best things, you should have to work for it. This is why many quest rewards and things you can buy from shops are Untradable. This is why Boss Altar items are untradable, you should have to WORK to get them. Seeing this sends off a message, as clear as day, and that message reads thusly:

“I don’t care one bit about any of the content you make or the hard work that goes into this game, I just want to get the best stuff for the sake of getting the best stuff so I can brag and laugh in everyone else’s face about it, and I don’t even want to put in any effort to this, so I’ll just glitch and abuse my way to getting it.”

What right should you have to play the game if you don’t even want to participate in it? Why not play something else, or if you don’t want to play games at all, just do anything else? You prove you don’t care about playing the game or about any of the work we put in, the nights that I’ve spent sleepless deliberating on changing a single item and the ramifications or that anyone else in the team might’ve also had over something they were working on, the desperate patching and duct-taping together we’ve had to do over people trying to break our game just to see what happens when everything falls apart and then laugh at our ruined livelihoods. That is what you say to me, and the whole team, and probably any other developer that a similar exploit occurs with when you try to pull this godawful shit. You say that you don’t care about the game, you just want to say you’re better than everyone else, and that you’re willing to step on other people to get your way even if it isn’t needed, but just because it’s easy.

Maybe I take this too seriously. Maybe I’m taking this appropriately. Maybe I’m not taking it seriously enough. I don’t know. All I know is when I see that, THAT is the message it sends. It makes to difficult to work on the game anymore, because then I get thinking like “they’re just going to abuse shit and blaze past it. Why should I bother appeasing them?” It literally gets to me badly enough to question what I have always wanted to do for a living.

THAT is why I say I’m against AFK grinding, or in this case, AFK farming.

 

Why are you not allowed to do this?

EDIT: dw lul

 

TL;DR

Salty selvut again, are you stopping us to grind where we want?

[After watching the video carefully again]










...wait..

Oh damn
k

First time agreeing what you said.

 

Please read the post above the one I'm quoting.

 

But how did they drop in the vid?

 

The mechanic is bugged and doesn't work. Hence, why they're never SUPPOSED to.

 

It's funny that you mention that.
I have joined 3 years ago. Since then, I have been trough pumpkin duping, white horse duping, LE duping, AFK exp farming, crate glitching and
all sorts of other glitch abusing.

Every single time I tried to play the game the "way it was supposed to", I got shit on. My pumpkin is worthless, I spent tons of LE on builds that
don't even work due to glitches or broken mechanics, I spent a fair amount of time on market to gain my portion of wealth while other people simply dupped LE and got away with it.

This game doesn't reward skill. It doesn't reward grinding either. What does it reward, is glitch abusing. The fact that apoc build is prevalent and white horse is 70 LE speaks for itself.

So, go ahead and explain to me, why should I play the game "the way it was supposed to be played"?
Cause it's morally right? More fun? The right thing to do?

How fucking fun is it to play your archer to level 100, getting your 1 piece of hive gear and then learning you won't be able to wear it in the future? And it's not even your fault, you were playing the game the way it was supposed to be played, and yet, a big flying cow landed a turd on your head.
How fucking fun is for you to get a legit pumpkin and figuring out it's worth peanuts?
How fucking fun is to spent hours upon hours on market and basically earning nothing while someone just gets lucky and finds a mythic that's
worth a shittone?

So, forgive me for not wanting to play the game "rightfully" anymore. You guys made it pretty clear that you if you wish to be rewarded in Wynncraft, you better glitch abuse or get lucky. Or both. I have never been anything but honest, rightful and moral from the day 1, and I can see how dump that was of me. If I took my chance and dupped LE, I would be enjoying the best mythics in the game right now. But I didn't, and now I'm left out of the strongest content in the game. Not because I'm not skilled enough, or didn't play the game it was supposed to be played, but because I didn't want to "cheat". Because I tried doing exactly what you expected of me. And now, ironically, I'm paying the price.

For the past few years, I have been the embodiment of honesty, and yet, I feel utterly disrespected as my efforts meant nothing. I was never rewarded for the time I put into this game. If I did, I wouldn't feel like a complete mockery and as if I just wasted my time.

You let the community believe they can get away with glitch abusing and going sideways with the game. You have made your bed, now lie in it.

 

And this is exactly what this sort of behaviour leads to, and is something that we have been trying to work to stamp out. People who didn't care enough about playing the game, so desperate to get on a pedestal that never existed, and crushing other players in their path with rampant abuse or even just wanting to see what happens when everything falls apart. You are exactly the victim we're trying to avoid happening again, and that's exactly the poisonous mindset that leads to more players just wanting give up, or worse, to see everything break.

The pumpkin and horse duping occurred when I had no control over the situation, and I had the same exact experience as you. I found one legitimately and got very excited, then crestfallen later when they were duped to all hell, and grinded and shelled out tons of money to breed a White Horse only to find out that they had suddenly become worth so much less. At that point I'm not sure what happened, but I believe it just had gotten too wide-spread to be reined in by the at-the-time limited moderation team and in-progress rules.

The Mythics, I always have personally been against, but that much is Salted's decision, not mine. I can't touch them. It's a similar situation to Pandemonium, in which I want to be able to buff and balance it but can't, though it's on a more fundamental level due to Mythics' extreme rarity being coded and thus something entirely out of my reach.

As for the Hive Item situation, this is once again something I couldn't control, and this shows the consequences of what happens when I fuck up. This is exactly what I wish WOULDN'T happen, and it's exactly what I've caused. This is exactly what I've spent those nights worrying myself in bed or over a sheet of paper with a pencil in a deathgrip over. I fucked up the balance, one of the people who was meant to be making this game more fun and improving it, and everyone else ends up having to pay the price when I end up having to fix my mistake, even if I only notice because people rampantly abuse that lapse in judgment. If I had the forethought, if I did this, or that, or the other thing, it's MY fault. No one else's, and I am perfectly willing to take the blame for that, but it was never "part of the plan" like you're assuming.

We have tried our hardest, I'd like to believe, to stop the abusers; duping situations have been dealt with far faster and more harshly recently and thanks to more coders being on the way we'll hopefully be able to apply balance and stop these glitches before they spiral out of control and end up fucking up our player base like the past situations have done you.

If there's a better way to play the game that doesn't involve crumbling out the foundation under our feet, I haven't found it yet. I, and we, are trying to make playing more rewarding, instead of just throwing glitch bombs and then scraping the rubble into a crown. For what it's worth I'm sorry you've had such a terrible time with this, but if you believe for a second that this is what we wanted to happen, then you couldn't be more wrong if you said the sky was neon-green with purple paisleys.

 

this whole thread is a wall of text add td;lrs pls

I agree with @Selvut283 though, afk grinding should be banned in every shape and form.

 

Tl'dr: Every time you even consider abuse a part of selvut dies and a part of the game as a whole dies with it.

 

Question that slightly pertains to this. Why are you the only person (as far as I know anyways, and from what you say it seems to only be you) that deals with the game's balance?

 

Yes I agree
quiting wynn makes u smart than Albert Einstein