Media Rule #19 Discussion

Hey guys as Rule #19 was just updated instead of a guide explaining the rule I wanted to open up a discussion of the new rule #19.

"19. Selling Unidentified Items
(Selling unidentified Mythics is not allowed. Legendary and below is fine. If the item turns out to be a different item than is advertised a refund must be given, as it would be considered scamming, see game rule #8.)"​

You can see the original guide to the old rule 19 below.

Spoiler: Old post

(Selling unidentified items that are not what is advertised is not allowed. The unidentified item must be known by the seller and the buyer. If the item that is sold is not what is advertised, it will be classified as scamming. Users may sell unidentified items as long as both parties know what the item is, exactly, and it is sold as such.)
[/QUOTE]

DISCLAIMER: I understand that I am not a mod so I have questioned various mods about the topic and analyzed the rule to the full.

So when you look at rule #19 it seems a bit confusing

First, lemme show this quote from @BeeMiner
"the item must be described to (the) buyer as possibly a Hetusol given what seller has determined it to be... then buyer pays and ID's the item. It is isn't a Hetusol, then (the) seller must refund fully, or else it is classified as scamming."

We Also have these quotes directly from the rule:

"The unidentified item must be known by the seller and the buyer. If the item that is sold is not what is advertised, it will be classified as scamming."

I have heard any people say that "Selling UNIDed items is against rules" While this is not necessarily true, there are some parts we need to go deeper into.

This rule seems kinda confusing by looking at it, even Juiced Agrees somewhat:
"Me: That's so confusing
Juiced: That's what I said when we wrote the rule tbh :D"

So now you're asking if it's confusing, why add the rule in the first place?
Before I get into any technicalities lemme cover why this new rule was created.

Here's another quote from @BeeMiner
"this rule was recently edited to reduce (the) risk of buying something that was not advertised as such"

The rule was created to prevent people using glitches to find an item like a mythic wand from 96-100, doing a glitch to find out its a fatal and sell it with it "Possibly" being a warp.

So now what can you do to sell your UNIDed items and stay within the rules?

DON'T:
- Sell items as "UNIDed Legendary (blank) level 96-100"
- Abuse glitches to find out an item before ID [Rule #3]


DO:
- Refund a player if you were wrong about an item
- Sell the item as "UNIDED [Item]" instead of "UNID Legendary (blank) 96-100"
- Find out what the item is through Level Range, ID cost, and Rarity

Other Stuff: So if there are 2+ possibilities for my item [Mythic Wand LVL 96-100]
and they both cost the same to ID, they you are able to sell it as a WARP or FATAL BUT you have to refund the user if it is not what you promised.


TL: DR, You cannot sell UNIDED items unless both the buyer and the seller know what the item is if it is not the promised item a refund MUST be issued and it is considered scamming

Happy Selling
-Nesaak
<3

​

 

Oh, this again. Mind giving references?

 

Are you kidding go on Trade market or Detlas WC1, almost every hour someone is trying to sell UNIDed item without stating the item or understanding rule #19.

 

I must be blind, link me a post.

 

This explains a lot, thanks

 

https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/un-idd-legendaries-and-powders.195734/

Also even well known players like @TheBriefcase Got confused recently

________________________________

Because I don't have contacts on right now and my eyesight is very poor so I had to type like that, I might lower it later.

 

Oh, I thought we were talking about Mythics. My bad.

 

While I referred to mythic a lot I should make it more clear the rule relates to any rarity <3

 

This has been made to execute @Terrence23 with justice right
(And to make the definition about that)










FOR JUSTICE!

 

I actually didn't see this I've heard ppl talking ab it though, link to thread?

 

Or am I terrible at English.. ;-;

 

Sorry I posted with out finishing on accident I edited the post xd sorry

 

https://forums.wynncraft.com/thread...house-18-mythic-in-stock-♋♓♋♓♋♓♋♓♋♓♋♓.192527/

 

I usually don't curse but damn that's a juicy thread, it's apparent that the rule was based on that thread.

 

Wouldn't it be WAY simpler just to ban selling unIDed items altogether? It's not as if identification costs much, or as if the buyer instead of the seller identifying it would affect the IDs given... I feel like all this confusion could be easily avoided.

 

Identifications affect everything. Banning unided items would be a dumb idea.

 

Alright, so yes this rule is confusing and I'm sorry that I wasn't able to explain it better. (I also want to point out Juiced is an avidly opposes that rule)

So when I wanted to implement it, what I was thinking is that it would help prevent people from getting scammed if the buyer claimed the item to be something that it is not. Such as Warp/Fatal, hence the reason why we have the you must refund or it will be considered a scam.

For the knowing what item it is, honestly you can guess, but you have to be prepared to give a refund if the item turns out to be not what you sold it as, or the seller will be banned.
You can also use some other methods to figure out what the item is, but I'd advise against that, you wouldn't be banned because it is not something that is absolutely game-breaking and deserves a ban, but we would prefer if you didn't try to use glitches to figure it out.

And I realise that it sounds silly, to make a guess which item it might be then give a refund if it's not the item you sold it as. But I also feel like this could help prevent scams that could happen in the future, selling unidentified items is something that is a little more common than it was a while ago, and I want to make sure that the trade itself is fair and doesn't fall under the rules of scamming.

It is a lot more difficult to deal with someone feeling like they got ripped off after IDing something that they payed more for if there is no rule that's there to protect the buyer from the potential scam that the seller might set up, knowingly, or unknowingly.

If the rule really does turn out to be a huge mistake, changes will be made to it. However, as it stands now, it will remain to protect buyers of unidentified items.

 

Would reduce confusion definitely. I'm alright with selling unIDed items, except if they are mythics. Just a huge window for scamming.

Still waiting for you to explain why banning unIDed, especially mythics, is a bad idea.

________________________________

I don't know Pretzule, the whole rule 19 leaves a lot of whats, buts and ifs.

What if someone advertises an item correctly but buyer claims it was advertised wrongly?
What if the situation is reversed?
What if I go in game, buy unIDed mythic that costs 15 stacks, replace it with a mythic that costs 5 stacks and say I was scammed?
What if I wrongly sell an item and claim the buyer is lying?

Is it even possible to determine who is lying/telling the truth in this case?

Unless you can determine exactly who is lying/scamming in said situations, I can't see the rule living up to expectations.

 

It's a similar case to actual scamming in a way, which can only really be proven with a recording, theoretically yeah that could happen and it could cause a mess.
But what I am hoping more is that people will understand this rule and record things and be more mindful of selling unidentified items.

I, personally, am not sure how to improve this rule further or try to take care of those things, especially if it's still a very similar situation to a scam in the sense that someone can be scammed and other things can be claimed. And again, without a video there's no real way to prove it for sure, for this rule and scamming.
I am open to suggestions on how to improve this rule, if you have ideas.

 

Selling of "normal" unIDed items was never a problem. They were cheap, cause you can't expect to get more than a few LE per unIDed e.g. legendary.
In that sense, "gambling" was fun and actually allowed some people to run shops.

The communities issue was selling of unIDed mythics. You already know there is a way to determine item name without identifying it. The glitch and ID cost. Problem with ID cost is that it can result in 2 or more items which potentially opened a window for scamming.

In my opinion, everything would be a lot simpler if people had to ID mythics in order to sell them. I'll repeat again, there is no need to sell
unIDed mythics. ID them and sell them at fair price. It would reduce confusion and make scamming a lot harder, the new rule would be
reduced to 1 sentence and selling of unIDed legendaries would be viable again.

Thunder claims it's a bad idea, but he never provided an argument, so I can't see how and why is it bad. If you have a clue, I'm all ears and don't
my changing my opinion.