Are Element Tanks Balanced?

the thing is, im 100% sure you already heard this:
"if we go defensive, we barely increase the dmg" - as a claim its balanced.
my point is, the real thing we really abuse are the powders on the armour in terms of more defenses / incredible dmg along with a defensive build.

to sum it up...
the powder special on both armour and weapons is highly abuseable due to using it with along with a defensive build to get both incredible defense and damage, which doesnt make sense in an mmo rpg game, does it?

 

Well, most flamethrower spells shred you, most high attack speed mobs shred you, most fire mobs shred you, ETC ETC. also a luck based system isn't the best to build tankiness off of, and there aren't really any good defensive air items, except for Ivory

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Another problem is that most mythic's DPS, along with skill point boosts, is more than proficient to deal good damage

 

Oh... I have a big feeling an incomming nerf is approaching... and its gonna be on stardust..

 

Praise the sun

 

How can we know for sure until the bugs are fixed and classes re-balanced, if that's even going to happen!?

If we take warrior, then yes, they are OP, but that's because of the war scream bug.

If we take archer, then no, cause there is no such thing as a tank archer. You can have all the best, perfect tanky gear, it's still gonna be utter crap.

Mage on the other hand needs absolutely nothing special to be OP. Making it tanky just creates further distance from being balanced.

Before re-working the items, we need to change how defense works. The fact that I can't go fire melee archer hurts both me and the game, and no item tweaking can fix that.

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Also, why is elemntal dmg reduction RAW and not %?
Just switching to % would make tank apoc build less op, and you didn't changed a single item.

 

Brokenly powerful (can you tank poison with def?)

Defense.

Broken.

Defense.

+tier is broken

Basically only broken things can really counter tanks.

 

Isn't Archer's defense kind of bugged as well? As far as I know, defensive Archers can't currently reach their full potential due to a bug.

 

I would not know. If so, I never heard of it, or at least that's what I think, tho it just makes my point further valid.
If not, then it's a shame defense is useless for archer and needs twealking anyhow.

 

I think they're pretty broken tbh
The difference in dps between glass cannon and tank builds is too little...

 

For survivability I prefer rainbow. Builds focussed on 1, 2 or 3 elements (which I prefer in playstyle) often have huge weaknesses to the other elements.
Full T6 powders arent always enough to counter that. With rainbow builds you dont even need powders to survive. So you dont have to grind or buy powders which are quite expensive or time consuming if you need a lot.

 

Oh yes finally it made rabbit angry







...but I also hate rainbow

 

Why don't we do a side-by-side comparison. Just gonna ignore the fact that the whole Damage Calculation has gone to shit.

'Meta Rainbow Items' include the following:

Morph-Stardust
Blue Mask
Boreal-Patterned Aegis
Gravity
Hephaestus-Forged Greaves
Vaward
Gemini
Gaea-Hewn Boots
Statue
Prism
Diamond Fusion Bracelet
Diamond Fusion Necklace
Gigabyte​

The items in bold in particular stand out as being extremely prevalent. Let's take a look at the total Elemental Defense provided by each item (not including IDs):

Stardust: 500
Hive Chest: 900
Hive Boots: 825
Statue: 300
Prism: 250
Diamond Fusion Necklace: 200

The problem with Rainbow items are as follows:

One. They seem to have no regard whatsoever towards Total Elemental Defense.

You never see any Helmets that give +500 Elemental Defense in one Element. You never see a Chestplate that gives +900 Elemental Defense in one Element. So why, WHY is it okay to give such high amounts of Elemental Defense to single items AND give them other important IDs?

Two. They statistically provide higher advantages.

As everyone knows, Skill Points have a higher rate of change at lower quantities. 100 Strength provides a 65% statistical bonus, however 20 in every Skill Point provides 91% total statistical bonus. This automatically makes spreading out Skill Points to be more of an advantageous concept over singular investment.

Three. Humans are perfectionists by nature.

I don't mean perfectionist in the context of being the best at their trade (at least to a certain extent). I mean perfectionist as in wanting to be a Generation 3 Sableye. No weaknesses. That is a subconscious mindset all humans possess. The idea behind the mindset is that they want a chance to win at everything. Say for example, a 100% Fire build player is pitted against a 100% Water build player. Water build holds superior advantage. The Fire build player has next to no chance of winning. People don't like that. They would rather be a jack of all trades than master of one. They want a shot at winning in any situation, independent of matchup.

Four. Rainbow items hold versatility in a wide variety of elements.

The very fact that Stardust + two Prisms give you up to +18 in every Skill Point is absurd. But no, what's even ore absurd is the fact that you now also have +2/4s Mana Regen, +200 raw Elemental Defense in every Element, up to +26% Reflection AND up to +26% Elemental Defense in each. As if the Skill Points were not enough. Walk Speed, Thorns, Mana Regen, Health Regen, the sheer positives on Rainbow items completely outclass singular Elemental gear. Take, for example, Boreal-Patterned Aegis against Leo.

Hive Chest | Leo
+3000 HP | +5620HP
+900 net Ele. Def | -100 net Ele. Def
+15% Rnbw. Damage | +18% Fire Damage
+20% Walk Speed | +130 Health Regen
+2/4s Mana Regen | ???
+25% Reflection | ???
​

Look at it. Just look at it. Now look me in the eye and tell me it's okay.

Five. They provide higher benefits than singular elements

Let's see, a +500 Elemental Defense +3400HP +2/4s Mana Regen Helmet also happens to provide up to +50 Skill Points. It's not just Stardust. Most Rainbow equipment are poorly designed by nature. Statue gives you almost +10000 HP at the cost of... using Teleport to move? Diamond Fusion Necklace gives you +200 Elemental Defense and +25 Skill Points at the cost of what the even shit is this item.

Six. Skill Points are too abundant for single or dual elemental builds

A player has 200 Skill Points. Each Skill can be invested to a maximum of 100. Now a player could choose to invest in a Fire/Thunder build, which seems like a decent idea on paper, with 100 Dex and 100 Def. Then he suddenly realizes he is weak as shit to Water, has no Mana Regen, 100% Mana Cost on Spells and completely walled by Elemental Tanks.​

Basically, the most important issue you need to address is the fact that players do not want to change builds so they can kill a boss that happens to deal Elemental Damage of the Element that they are weak against. Asking for help is a hassle when you can just get a build that can multitask Qira and Wybel simultaneously.

Here's my idea:

Restrict the benefits of Rainbow items and treat them as single-Element items that are spread over many Elements. For example, change Stardust to something like this:

Morph-Stardust

♥ Health: +3000
✹ Fire Defense: +30
❉ Water Defense: +30
❋ Air Defense: +30
✦ Thunder Defense: +30
✤ Earth Defense: +30

✓ Insert Reqs Here

+1/4s Mana Regen
+2 Strength
+2 Dexterity
+2 Intelligence
+2 Defense
+2 Agility

[0/3] Powder Slots
Set Item​

This then makes it comparable to an item of such caliber:

Some Legendary Helmet

♥ Health: +3000
❉ Water Defense: +350
✦ Thunder Defense: -100

✓ Insert Reqs Here

+1/4s Mana Regen
+15 Intelligence
-5 Dexterity

[0/3] Powder Slots
Legendary Item​

Which, if you ask me, is perfectly fair. Because hey, last time I checked taking 0.1 away from 1 then multiplying it by 5 does not equal 1.

Not disrespecting any work you and other people have put into the game, but I must say: you can do better than this.

 

I'd like to point out that, at least in my case, we don't want to switch builds according to bosses beacuse we can't.
If your build is air+water in terms of skill points, then you can only use air, water and neutral dmg. If a particular boss would deal thunder dmg and be weak to fire, for example, then I'd like to gear up accordingly, but I can't, cause my skill points are spent elsewhere. I can't re-spec them every single time due to it being tedious and costing 2 soul points per re-roll.

I'm all for having several different sets per character, but current skill point system is too restrictive + issue of bank space to store different gear.

 

Tbh i feel like rainbow builds would be fineishhhhh if rainbow meant that they actually would have to invest rainbow skillpoints ._. You can literally make an elemental tank by investing 20skillpoints in every element. Meaning you still have 98skillpoints you can put into dmg and defence (or basically any other skill that you need to invest in to use some random mythic weapon) è___é thats just plain wrong ;-; Another solution would be to make elemental defs way less powerful so that casual mobs can still get through elemental def (warrior really needs a heavy fix with def though .-. )

 

nerf prism (remove the defs), nerf stardust (ppl already talked about it), slightly nerf hive items' defenses, nerf prowess, rework diamond fusion items (remove the defs and give it %)

 

Vochar waste???? any piece of hive armor can be good in multiple builds but ya I get what youre saying nerfs sucks

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I think he talked about orange wybel dropps like bonder

 

i agree with most of ur post but fix ur shit nimrod

 

As some others said, I think that people just use semi tanks in lots of builds just so they can survive. If The eyre not glass cannons then it's highly likely they'll die before killing the boss. People have to find balance between tankiness and damage in most builds, rainbow tanks help

 

Fking typos.

 

adding on to what other people I've been saying, I'd like Elemental Defense to function as a "shield" rather than a "filter" :

Let's say you have a Mage and a Warrior set, both with Fatal and Thrundacrack.
Let's also say they do 8000 ✦ Thunder damage with their main spell (Meteor and Uppercut) all the time

Let's assume a mob or a player with 4000 ✦ Thunder defense as the target for both of these.

With the current system :

• Mage does a 8000 ✦ Thunder damage Meteor, Elemental Defense kicks in, reduces it to 4000 ✦ Thunder Damage
• Warrior casts Uppercut, does 3000 ✦ Thunder damage first hit, gets canceled by Elemental Defense, does 2000 ✦ Damage on the second, gets canceled out as well, and same for the last hit for 3000 ✦.

Now I think a system where you have to wear out the Elemental Defense of the mob each time you cast a spell would make it less discriminatory towards classes with chain damage (Assassin only has Spin Attack, which isn't the strongest spell, and Warrior's strongest spell has 3 bursts) :

With this Elemental Defense "shield" :

• Mage does a 8000 ✦ Thunder damage Meteor, Elemental Defense kicks in, reduces it to 4000 ✦ Thunder Damage (no change obviously)
  
• Warrior casts Uppercut, does 3000 ✦ Thunder damage first hit, gets Elemental Defense down to 1000 without doing any Thunder Damage, second hit does 2000 ✦, gets reduced to 1000 ✦ damage with the Elemental Defense (which now is down to 0), then the last hit does 3000 ✦. The total is 4000 ✦ damage, the same as Mage.

I mean it would be more fair than having this system which screws classes over others (Assassin tho)