Discussion About Balancing Pvp

Thread is kinda long.

Hello, I will be a discussing things to change in PVP to hopefully make it more balanced and enjoyable. The main reason I want to discuss this is due to the lack of content in the end game of WynnCraft. Currently there are only a few things you can actually do which are:

• Grind for loot by killing mobs
• Do loot chest runs
• Explore the map (doesn't take long)
• Sell / trade items
• Help noobs

This gets really repetitive and boring as time goes on as there's no real big goal to strive for. An avenue of content I was always interested in since I've joined the server over 4 years ago was PVP. With nearly any MMORPG, PVP has always been a big aspect of the game.

But I believe currently there are a few issues with PVP making it quite unfun and unbalanced. Them being:

• Agility is too strong.
• Poison cannot be blocked whatsoever.
• Mage heal needs a slight reduction.
• Weapons doing insane amounts of damage even after building very tanky.

1. Agility
Agility increases your chance to completely dodge an attack with a cap of 80%. Having RNG play such a huge role in a skill based game/fight/whatever is never a good idea. You're just rolling the dice to see who wins. Take games such World of Warcraft, League of Legends, and Overwatch. All pretty popular games, all don't really don't have something that completely nullifies an attack to 0 based on RNG.

My suggestion is to make it a percent chance to reduce the damage taken (50%?) instead of completely nullifying the damage. This will still prove useful, but not something that you can base a build around and get away with due to RNG being in your favor.


2. Poison
Poison's problem is that it cannot be guarded against other than by agility working. This allows people to create a build around having such high poison that all they need to do is hit you once or twice and you will guaranteed die.

My suggestion is to make poison damage reduced by your defense stat. As poison could be considered neutral damage, it seems fitting that defense can reduce it.


3. Mage's Heal
This topic is quite controversial, but I believe it is a bit too powerful in PVP. Being the only class that can self heal on command puts it at quite the advantage. Combined with teleport and ice snake, it is extremely easy to escape your enemy and heal up after taking a hit or two (if you don't get one shot).

My suggestion is to give heal a slight reduction (20%?) only in PVP. While not making the ability too strong, it still has its uses.


4. Weapons doing too much damage
This is something that mostly lies within a few weapons such as Cataclysm, Stinger's Quake, etc. Regardless of elemental defenses, in most cases these weapons can still one shot you. This is very unfun and does not really require much skill to pull off.

I do not really have a good/practical suggestion to help this other than changing number values on items/abilites.



Good points made by others:
For agility: this thread
For poison:

• Remove knockback
• If no damage is actually done, poison should not be applied.
• If agility procs, poison should not be applied.

(Will merge in to thread after a little bit)



Numbers and such can change, what I've provided are examples to help grasp the idea. Another topic I may add later is Thorns & Reflection (cactus builds).
So please provide feedback if you may, everything is appreciated.

PS: if you have any suggestions to make this thread look more clean / easy to read feel free to say.

 

Glad to see someone found this a problem.

You're basically saying "Make Agi the same as Def", you can't do that while we already have a Defense doing that job.
I once discussed a lot about how Def/Agi, Poison and even Mage's heals having too much advantages/disadvantages.
https://forums.wynncraft.com/thread...ankyness-now-has-a-simplified-summary.178834/

Quoting from the thread I linked above, Poison indeed should be reduced by Defense and not activated when dodged by Agility.
For Mage's Heal, my opinion is to reduce the Healing health amount by the damage reduction multiplier. Because we see damage reduction multiplier as a health booster, in that way we can balance out the heal for those who have much health and Def/Agi points.

I don't really see a problem in it, they're designed to deal as much as they do rn. Whenever Defense is fixed to act equally with Agi, it should ease this problem some of the weapons penetrating tank builds too much.

 

So basically make Agility into defense?

 

Some nice thoughts, but I disagree/agree on some things.
1. Agility. I personally thing agility is fair. Most high agility builds tend to have lower health and defenses to compensate, and agility is the one thing than can protect them.
2. Poison. I agree with your statement. 12k poison can take out most builds. Having defenses reduce it is a good idea, but if someone has negative defenses(glass cannons), they will receive far too much damage. You may want to tweak this a little.
3. Mage Heal. Mage heals are a big problem in pvp. An element tank mage takes very little damage and can constantly heal when damage is taken. I believe mage heal should heal a higher amount when healing allies, but a reduced amount when self healing.
4. Weapons doing too much damage. I disagree with this as they were intentionally meant to do high damage. These builds are usually glass cannon to counter the high damage. If these weapons are nerfed, elemental tanks will become more powerful than they already are.

Those are just some stuff you can think about tweaking a little.

 

This is more of a burst vs. rapid attack kinda thing. Against high burst damage, Agility doesn't stand much of a chance when the attack eventually does hit. However when you use attacks like Multi-Hit, Agility tends to reduce damage quite similarly to defense in that the amount of trials leads to nearly the same effects, however Agility covers far more types of damage than Defense, making it op in that scenario.

Poison should be affected likewise BUT I'm thinking about some extra things.

With Agility you should be able to dodge the attack completely (thus no poison or attack damage) or maneuver such that you can avoid the areas of the attack that specifically inflict poison, like avoiding the poison-imbued tip of a blade but getting hit by the side (thus only no poison but yes to attack damage).

Sometimes an opponent may not pierce your Defenses deep enough to inflict poison (Defense has a chance to block poison but never the actual attack).

Poison may also receive a damage nerf. I view it as a secondary support.

Lastly, it should not give ANY knockback when it hits as poison is more internal than external. (When you are poisoned IRL you are not hit away rather you feel internal pain).

By comparison to Regen and Lifesteal (even at Lifesteal glitched state), Heal is definitely far superior, rendering any build that uses the former useless in actual combat (in addition to Regen Timers being reset everytime you are hit).

I personally feel as though Ice Snake is also genuinely stronger than most Slow spells (excluding damage) seeing as it has the highest range which is also easily controllable (it can reach across a large portion of the Nether Arena's Center/Portal Area).

In conjunction to Element Defense/Agility it is definitely very ridiculous.

Technically speaking, this is mainly due to how Element Defense (and Quake Damage) don't factor in Attack Speed but do factor in Base Damage. Once this is fixed, it should generally be okay, perhaps allowing Raw Damage builds to actually be the best at what they are supposed to do (hurt those with higher defenses more easily in return for being unable to buff damage without either increasing Raw Damage (both), increasing Attack Speed (Melee), increasing Mana Regen/Int (spammability for spells), or using higher spell multiplier attacks (Mage's Meteor, Assassin's Multihit, etc.)

 

Mage's healing should not be a 3 clicks insta back to 100%, is almost like giving warriors 99% defense from war scream where doing damage that doesn't insta kill you basically useless. I think mage's heal ability should be calculated based on the total health point, not what the current health point divide by the total. We can set the healing to, let's say 1/5 of the total hp. This will discourage mage to spam heals since it will require more Mana over time and also punish mage if the mage takes too much damage in a short amount of time.

 

My suggestion was about the agi proc reduction will be for ALL damage taken, not just neutral damage which is what defense does. But from what I've read from the thread you linked it looks like this will be a good solution as well. I just do not like the idea of hitting someone, but not actually hitting them due to RNG.

For healing I do not really understand this, care to explain?

For weapons doing too much damage, the reason for this point was being one shot is not fun especially when you still have a decent amount of elemental / regular defense. I get these weapons are supposed to deal extreme amounts of damage, but this is just for the sake of making PVP more enjoyable and interactive.

Thank you for your feedback.

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1. I don't see how you can have a skill matchup based on RNG fair. You don't really beat them, you just rolled the dice better.
2. Strictly only defense will affect poison, not elemental defnense, so this should not really change much for glass cannons.
3. ye
4.

edit: Something I forgot to mention is with these weapons (cata, stinger) you can still build relatively tanky to counter the negatives and still one shot players. Just unfun.

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I agree with most of your points on poison, especially the knockback bullshit, makes no sense whatsoever. For the damage nerf, I believe if defense started to reduce the damage of it this will be good enough.

Thank you ALL for your feedback

 

"pls ignore what i said here". I think the damage calculation should just be fixed all around starting with fixing elem def, and def so its actual balanced and not to op in some cases and useless in others.

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this is way better idea then mine XD, i always said make mage's heal over time and not all at once.

 

fam you think too much of PvP kek

 

Nerf Guardian



@Khaps

 

That's just how Agility works in Wynncraft, Agility-type players would need luck to dodge the attacks in some situations. I hope it's more reasonable than just reducing the damage by the percentage of Agility.

For example a player heals 1000 HP in without any Def/Agi. When the player has 80% Defense, he now only heals 200 HP. Same for Agility. And when the player has both Defense and Agility, I suggest it to work just like in @Cosomos's suggestion I quoted.

 

Bring back pre gavel pvp

 

Once Attack Speed Spell Multiplier gets included in Elemental Damage calculations, Cataclysm will become so much stronger than it already is :(

 

why?

and I'm going to this how it should work, and say assassin with 80% gets hit with 25k spin or something and has about 500 raw Thunder def, that's about 4.5k which is well kinda a joke, I mean that's with full def, and fairly good Thunderer def but still pretty good.
warriors will take even less sadly.

I do however want cata to get a debuff, like giving it lots of -% elem def, more -hp, and maybe even hp regen.
tbh most mythic need there debuffs to be worse, like apoc should give - raw hp regen and lots of it. and grim just needs a rework XD

also I'm taking it as you meant the problems with elem def. not the actual tier attack, because if you are, you should know it already is...

 

I personally agree agillity is unfair, but not for all classes.
Usually when it comes to the case of agillity, theres the simple argument that "rapid attacks can take care of agillity quite well", which is true, but not everyone can do that.
Think about mage trying to damage a 150 agillity assasin with meteor, mage is based around '1 hit that deals alot of damage' kind of attacks, so than making 80% of the meteors he is able to land to not even do anything sort of makes the mage kind of pointless in that matchup, where if it was a different class, like assasin or archer, they could arrow storm, or multihit for that damage.

 

Counter argument... mage would win anywats

 

So basically make Agility a better Defense so defense is useless?

 

completely alright with you

becuz I rekt him in nether with my guardian build (I actually I rekt THEM because they usually team up on me.

Other than that, i'm pretty much agreeing on everything of what @motoki1 said, and I thought of starting a thread that would make pvp come back to wynn...

gimme a quick feedback before I make it maybe?

there's normal servers, and there's pvp servers.

When you enter a pvp serv, you choose your class and start at level 1, BUT pvp is enabled, with maybe a shield for level 1-20 to avoid level 100 camping ragni...

i'll obviously go more in debts in the thread, please don't steal my idea just gimme fast feedback on wether you think its a good or not idea ;)

 

The entire things are talking about

Spoiler: Him

@TinaChan

 

Do powders even work in nether