Debate About The Wynn Economy

Orange it's broken because you sell you powders for way over what they should be and you have all of them so it raises price for everyone

 

1 decent mythic = instantly rich .-.

 

Here lemme give you an example of how the existence of mythics could raise prices. (Note: All prices are made up since I don't follow prices closely. Pretend they're to-market-value.)


summitwei is a poor guy with half a stack of LE total. He really wants a 95SP Blue Mask. Unfortunately, there is only one such Blue Mask on the Market at the moment, and it's auctioning for a stack of LE right now.

Then, summitwei logs on the server, and opens his daily chest. Inside, there's a Cataclysm, which he sells within the week for 20 stacks. Finally he can pursue his dream of getting a godly Blue Mask.

summitwei goes on the auction and bids the minimum increment. The person who had one stack bidded increases that, and they continue the war, increasing the price this Blue Mask will go for. Eventually it goes for two stacks, which is double what it originally was going to go for.


This is obviously hypothetical (me? get a cata? ha) but hopefully this shows how a mythic could affect prices.

 

this is not true, firstly
And this isn't a debate about my business.

true

That makes sense, but thats just overpay, which happens in most every auction. Its an indirect affect, which is true for almost every item in the game, so its not directly attributed to the existance of mythics.

 

Well you have a lot and you still scam

 

This is debate for a different location, not this thread. If you want to debate this with me, join my discord created for this purpose. https://discord.gg/TSmzF

 

I personally see it from another angle, wynncraft doesn't actually give you infinite money, but rather it gives you infinitely more items. That's why people complain about full classes of junk legendaries and don't have cash

People are trying to sell > buy. I don't think we need a money sink, I think what we need is a proper way for the people to turn their useless gears into sufficient amount of money(a few emeralds from IB is not enough) then when people actually got the money to spend them we can worry about money sinks

Just my opinion, wynncraft is a different mmorpg than other mmorpg, people just dubbing other game's economy logic here isn't appropriate

 

If you want to do some stats :

Imagine we take 100% of the players that occasionally come on the forum.
75% is greed.
25% don't care about money.

This is approximative stat, but nearly true.

 

In my experiences, the Wynn economy is good. I have never dealt with mythics (I have never bought or sold any) so I may not have an accurate viewpoint. But prices seem to be reasonable, and mythic prices are fine based on how rare they are. I have slowly been able to make more money, and I'm not too rich or too poor. Yes, I do agree that inflation is a problem. But there aren't enough money sinks in the game and too many ways to make money.

 

Ugh... I keep trying to reply to this thread, but don't really want to be completely wrong, so I never actually post anything...

 

1. Do we know rough estimate on the Inflation of the economy
2. that whole mythic discussion is a wholoe other topic but to shortten my input here go: Mythics in low suppluy Demand high, simply (all back to its a luxuary good not needed but wanted)




DUMB IDEA I THOUGHT OF: what if people were somehow able to be taxed and slowly take out money from the economy, i know since drops from mobs and chest it wouldnt make much of a difference but help me build on the idea if you like.

 

You cannot tax ppl .-. If you forcibly take the money there will be an uproar. You need to make them love wasting their money. And it needs to be something that isnt a necessity but a luxury add on that isnt required for endgame but just makes stuff more comfortable x)

 

If Emeralds are the Blood of the Economy, then Items are the Bones.
One problem I have with the economy is "ID Inflation". Basically all players at the beginning of gavel would love any descent Legendary(just for the sake of it's name), but as time went on people started to want better and better ID's due to More and More Legendaries being found.
Then Rerolling and higher drop rates happened and put the final nail in the coffin, for any descent Legendary being sold. Sadly it is too late just to lower drop rates and rerolling is a good feature that should not be removed.

I have an idea on "blocking" that run away inflation, but basically everyone would hate it... well everyone that uses god items... I guess I will leave it in a spoiler, but I am not really promoting it I just see that it could be a possible solution to "ID Inflation." What my idea does is make the net of all ID's rolls always equal to the base stats of the item. Basically items can be good/bad in the right/wrong stats, but not allowing bad/god items to exist. It's main concept is that by nerfing "god" items and buffing "bad" items you may cause more market activity for all items in general, allowing a better flow of buy/sell.

Spoiler: ID Balancing, Roll Scaling

What my idea is "Roll Scaling", were all items will have the an average value at the base amount. As we know the base ID is 1.00, but due to randomness of items you could end up with 1.30 in all stats leading to more powerful and desirable items.
What I mean by that is every ID has a random number that reflects how potent the ID is. Let use say the range for Positive ID's are 0.30 to 1.30, with 101 possible results it could end up with. Also that Negative ID's have a range of -0.7 to -1.3, with 61 possible results.
So I how I would "balance it" would to add a second stage to the identification process, after this initial roll a "check" is made:
The sum of Positive ID's rolls on the item will be reduced by the number of Positive ID's on the item
The sum of all Negative ID's rolls on the item will be increased by the number of Negative ID's on the item, then multiplied by 2
Then those numbers will be added and checked to see if it equals 0
(SumOfPositiveRolls-NumberOfPositiveIDs)+2*(SumOfNegativeRolls+NumberOfNegativeIDs)=0
If it has more then 0 then 0.01 will be removed from a random ID(that is not at minimum), until it is 0
If it has less then 0 then 0.01 will be added to a random ID(that is not at maximum), until it is 0

Aside from sending shock waves through the market it would both add more balance to items and make the price per item more
consistent. If combined with Items becoming more rare again then I believe that, the more consistently priced items, may help the economy in the long run. You still can get items with max in certain stats that you want, but not in every stat.

How I would deal with the existing god items, is by adding a new feature to the identifier. Where if an item becomes "Disenchanted"(Manditory Item Update), then the Identifier will fix only what is broken(Add/Remove ID's, Scale ID's, Add Lores, set shop items to base stats,ect) and change nothing else. Why items become Disenchanted is because "Disturbances in the flow of magic"(Selvut/Salted changes items) cause items to not be functional and loose all effects.

 

hah

But really, if you tax emeralds somehow (decay in bank/payments etc), there will be instant mobbing of the trade market to invest emeralds in items. Prices will go up even more (mainly high value mythics) and item>item trade will reign. Depending on the severity of the "tax" of course. And you can't really tax items themselves (to clarify, in order to punish/tax those who migrate to items as currency), unless you take away one random bank item a day or something (please don't).

Most items have useless and important IDs (especially those without variable function, like weapons and mono-purpose armor). While more varation will be created for items that work in different ways, thus requiring different id combos, other items will fall into the same ID endgame that exists now (items with all important IDs good and all other IDs bad will be in demand) and "perfect" items will sell high once again.

 

(Didnt read all the previouse comments just here to give you the honest answer)

The problem with the wynn econamy is not that mythics are overpriced, its the fact that everything else is worth nothing.
you cant sell anything that isnt some godly item that fits into a build (that uses a mythic), for over 5 le, which is insane. The econamy wasn't like this once, and the reason is mythics.

In a theoretical standpoint where: A. Mythics didnt exsist B. Mythics we're alot more common, this wouldn't be this way, since mythics are the only thing that is "hard to get", compared to Rares, Legendaries and even Uniques, that all seem super easy to get, therefor not worth spending your money on. so the market has desolved into a state where mythics dominate and everything else (that doesnt benefit them) is pointless.

 

I think a big part of the problem is that items last forever. There is no way to lose a good item once acquired, unless you drop it in a hopper or something. Because of how long wynn has lasted, old players have accumulated ridiculous amounts of wealth compared to new players. Not that they shouldn't be rewarded for their time, but there needs to be some way to get rid of that extra cash without buying a warp.

Other long lasting games have ways for players to dump their riches. The space sim EVE, for example, has actual costs involved in maintaining your spaceship and interacting with other players. Battles effectively wipe trillions of in-game dollars from the system, as do other player undertakings.

In wynn, the only disposable items are potions. These really don't cost much compared to endgame incomes.

There needs to be some other endgame money sink (not a tier 5 horse, hopefully...?). It seems that guilds attempted to fill that role, exchanging emeralds for land and power, but they really aren't effective anymore. Wealthy players need another way to interact with the environment, and I think guilds were just one step in the right direction. And buildable death stars or space lazers aren't the answer. The best solution would be something that is a disposable, fun experience (like a space lazer battle), rather than just a valuable item. For starters, maybe there could be more endgame challenges/dungeons/arenas with extremely high entry costs (disproportional to the permanent rewards). I think some way for players to temporarily control/alter land, other than guilds, could work as well. Or maybe we can just add a tier 5 horse...

 

mot like take one bank item but somehow take small percentage of emeralds from each person and yeah item id that the main way emeralds go out of distribution but maybe some other way besides server shops and identifiers that will take out emeralds more quickly and we cant tax people more or less cause we wouldn't know how many emeralds they have but that is how the FED works right? cant we work the same? and maybe some way like how banks have interest when you but money in you could figure out a way to charge interest on how many emeralds people physically have on them for longer periods of time?

 

I see your point, but it would be much harder to achieve. Perhaps Negative ID's should have Twice the weight of Positive ID's.
Although you could add weight to each items ID's that would be allot of unnecessary work.

 

I'm saying that if a % of emeralds are taxed, people will trade all their LE for high value items as soon as they can to avoid the tax. Thus, they will own no/few emeralds to be taxed.

Weight could be implemented, but in the same way ID probabilities could just be set with lower variance (centered around the pre-existing means), therefore making it harder to get both very good and very bad items. Either way, people will still want rare, "perfect" items.

 

Of course, but the "Perfect" items would be as hard to get as "god" items, and not be as strong as "god" items. As a result the importance of getting a Perfect item would go down.